Welcome, Guest
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  Pirate's Cove (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Do you believe in "the Devil"? « previous next »
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 29

SoDakBuc

****
Starter

Posts : 824
Offline
#30 : July 06, 2009, 10:08:38 PM

No.

"Good" or "Bad" comes from people and their individual perspectives, thoughts and experiences in life and their own personal reality.

To each his own.   
So would you or would you not try to influence your child in the ways of the world as you see it?

Absolutely.  Guide them to help establish a foundation of what is right and wrong - they'll make their own choices... like it or not.

and I have 5 very happy, normal balanced children from ages 5 - 21.  (I'm not sure why you ask the question really...)
Because in your "wisdom" you taught them or better yet, you laid the groundwork for them to know "good" from "bad". where did you learn the fundamentals? Whether you want to admit it or not your parents laid the groundwork for you. and their parents before them and so on. Likely leading back to some sort of religion. Maybe not Christianity but if you look at most of the religions you notice that all of them have a fundamental system of good and bad... So whether you want to admit it or not your basic idea of right and wrong started with religion.
A better question for the non believers is why do you accept right and wrong? What do you fear?  If it is "right" to open the door for an elderly lady why do you do it? You sure don't have to.

The difference between a successful team and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will.

O.S. Buc76

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 3403
Offline
#31 : July 06, 2009, 10:23:22 PM

I firmly believe in God so I guess my answer would have to be.........yes.




Guest
#32 : July 06, 2009, 10:24:42 PM

(SDB) Really?

Lots of assumption there on the interweb about someone (not something) you know absolutely nothing about IMO.

Your main assumption is that religion establishes what is good and what is bad? That religion predates humanity as we know it?  (Both rhetorical questions.) Flawed Logic in my opinion. Religion (IMO) are guideposts for some.  Simply put.

To me it's a Classic Chicken vs Egg question....   To each his own. and in answering the OP's question, I believe good and bad are intrinsic to being a human not because of the existence or non-existence of an entity... Some find their way with religion - some do not.

"A better question for the non believers is why do you accept right and wrong?  (Because that is what I've learned through my personal experiences that makes sense to me about right and wrong.) What do you fear? (Spiders are pretty creepy)  If it is "right" to open the door for an elderly lady why do you do it? (I'm polite, well mannered and respect my elders.) You sure don't have to."

BucsGuru

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 6397
Offline
#33 : July 06, 2009, 10:31:01 PM

Wisdom and understanding comes from the Lord...  


hmmm...

I have an interesting conundrum for you then. According to Genesis, wisdom and understanding came when Eve was tempted by the devil to eat from the Tree of Knowledge. So couldn't you say that wisdom and understanding came BECAUSE of the Devil?

Psalm 111:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding. To him belongs eternal praise.


The key for Eve was to have "followed" the instruction of the Lord and to have not partaken of the tree of knowledge.  So I say no to the devil being the cause of wisdom and understanding.  Free will predicated her choosing of the fruit having already known it was wrong to do so...yet the devil lied and told her she would not be harmed and that God was holding out on her; WOMEN!!

SoDakBuc

****
Starter

Posts : 824
Offline
#34 : July 06, 2009, 10:53:12 PM

2 Timothy 3:1-5 (ESV) - But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. (2) For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, (3) heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, (4) treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, (5) having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

The difference between a successful team and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will.

cyberdude557

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 11834
Offline
#35 : July 06, 2009, 10:54:08 PM

So if Satan is the fallen angel and the anti-God....why does god judge souls and send them purposely to his opposition? If Satan is the root of all evil, why blame mortals for being deceived by the devil? Shouldn't this be a battle fought between Satan and God themselves? Why are mortals fighting this battle for them?

Think about it... Did Eve choose to do evil? No. She was deceived by the Serpent. So why is Eve being punished?

Whatever happened to the all-forgiving God? Apparently he isnt very forgiving:
For punishment for eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge, in Genesis 3:19, God told Adam that he would, "return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return."

Satan is the one that has put his evil mark on God's creation. Yet Satan seems to always escape punishment.

BucsBullsBolts

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 4823
Offline
#36 : July 06, 2009, 10:55:50 PM

Your main assumption is that religion establishes what is good and what is bad? That religion predates humanity as we know it?  (Both rhetorical questions.) Flawed Logic in my opinion. Religion (IMO) are guideposts for some.  Simply put.

To me it's a Classic Chicken vs Egg question....   To each his own. and in answering the OP's question, I believe good and bad are intrinsic to being a human not because of the existence or non-existence of an entity... Some find their way with religion - some do not.

Nicely put ... Religion was the precursor to science and legal systems, created by early Man to try and explain why things were the way they were and what made men act the way they did. Man's perception of good and evil evolved from thousands of years of societal interaction .... what did and didn't work for men to live together and flourish.

SoDakBuc

****
Starter

Posts : 824
Offline
#37 : July 06, 2009, 11:01:52 PM

So if Satan is the fallen angel and the anti-God....why does god judge souls and send them purposely to his opposition? If Satan is the root of all evil, why blame mortals for being deceived by the devil? Shouldn't this be a battle fought between Satan and God themselves? Why are mortals fighting this battle for them?

Think about it... Did Eve choose to do evil? No. She was deceived by the Serpent. So why is Eve being punished?

Whatever happened to the all-forgiving God? Apparently he isnt very forgiving:
For punishment for eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge, in Genesis 3:19, God told Adam that he would, "return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return."

Satan is the one that has put his evil mark on God's creation. Yet Satan seems to always escape punishment.
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
Romans 10:9-13 (New International Version)
9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."[a] 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

The difference between a successful team and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will.

cyberdude557

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 11834
Offline
#38 : July 06, 2009, 11:06:54 PM

So if Satan is the fallen angel and the anti-God....why does god judge souls and send them purposely to his opposition? If Satan is the root of all evil, why blame mortals for being deceived by the devil? Shouldn't this be a battle fought between Satan and God themselves? Why are mortals fighting this battle for them?

Think about it... Did Eve choose to do evil? No. She was deceived by the Serpent. So why is Eve being punished?

Whatever happened to the all-forgiving God? Apparently he isnt very forgiving:
For punishment for eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge, in Genesis 3:19, God told Adam that he would, "return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return."

Satan is the one that has put his evil mark on God's creation. Yet Satan seems to always escape punishment.
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
Romans 10:9-13 (New International Version)
9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."[a] 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."


That doesnt answer the question.

BucsBullsBolts

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 4823
Offline
#39 : July 06, 2009, 11:07:25 PM

12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

No difference between Jew and Gentile?? That translation ain't going to sit well with some ...

SoDakBuc

****
Starter

Posts : 824
Offline
#40 : July 06, 2009, 11:17:26 PM

12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

No difference between Jew and Gentile?? That translation ain't going to sit well with some ...

For those that it would not sit well for this is the difference according to THE BOOK...God entered into an eternal covenant with Abraham that his descendants (through his wife Sarah and son Isaac) and they (the Jews) became the Chosen of God, the Elect. Everyone who is not part of the Abrahamic and Mosaic covenant are Gentiles (people of the nations).

Keep in mind this was written BC... you know... Before Christ. Therefore before Christ.

The difference between a successful team and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will.

SoDakBuc

****
Starter

Posts : 824
Offline
#41 : July 06, 2009, 11:21:15 PM


To me it's a Classic Chicken vs Egg question....   To each his own. and in answering the OP's question, I believe good and bad are intrinsic to being a human not because of the existence or non-existence of an entity... Some find their way with religion - some do not.

Nicely put ... Religion was the precursor to science and legal systems, created by early Man to try and explain why things were the way they were and what made men act the way they did. Man's perception of good and evil evolved from thousands of years of societal interaction .... what did and didn't work for men to live together and flourish.
And if what you are taught in school was wrong too?
http://www.drdino.com/media-categories.php?c=seminars&v=10
The video is about 2 hours but well worth the time. Probably a well needed eye opening for some and maybe not.

The difference between a successful team and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will.

O.S. Buc76

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 3403
Offline
#42 : July 06, 2009, 11:41:59 PM

Sigh; is anyone capable of just tossing religion or science aside and trusting and believing in something all by yourself?  :-


BucsBullsBolts

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 4823
Offline
#43 : July 06, 2009, 11:51:07 PM

12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

No difference between Jew and Gentile?? That translation ain't going to sit well with some ...

For those that it would not sit well for this is the difference according to THE BOOK...God entered into an eternal covenant with Abraham that his descendants (through his wife Sarah and son Isaac) and they (the Jews) became the Chosen of God, the Elect. Everyone who is not part of the Abrahamic and Mosaic covenant are Gentiles (people of the nations).

Keep in mind this was written BC... you know... Before Christ. Therefore before Christianity[/b].

I'm not even remotely a Bible scholar but wasn't the New Testament, AC ...you know... After Christ?

BucsBullsBolts

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 4823
Offline
#44 : July 07, 2009, 12:08:39 AM


To me it's a Classic Chicken vs Egg question....   To each his own. and in answering the OP's question, I believe good and bad are intrinsic to being a human not because of the existence or non-existence of an entity... Some find their way with religion - some do not.

Nicely put ... Religion was the precursor to science and legal systems, created by early Man to try and explain why things were the way they were and what made men act the way they did. Man's perception of good and evil evolved from thousands of years of societal interaction .... what did and didn't work for men to live together and flourish.
And if what you are taught in school was wrong too?
http://www.drdino.com/media-categories.php?c=seminars&v=10
The video is about 2 hours but well worth the time. Probably a well needed eye opening for some and maybe not.

I did take a quick look at that site. Pulled the following up about trying to rationalize that the Earth was indeed created in 6 days and felt it was way over my head ...

Quote
The Bible clearly indicates three things about God's formation of the universe. First, the earth is the center of God's attention in the universe. By implication, the earth may also be located near the center-perhaps so man can see the glory of God's creation in every direction. Second, the universe (both matter and space itself) has been "stretched out". Third, the universe has a boundary, and therefore it must have a center. If these three assumptions are plugged into the currently accepted formulas of physics, and the mathematical crank is turned, we live in a universe in which clocks tick at different rates depending on your location.

Furthermore, the time dilation effect would be magnified tremendously as the universe was originally expanding. As the universe expanded, there was a point at which time was moving very rapidly at the outer edge and essentially stopped near the center. At this point in the expansion of the universe, only days were passing near the center, while billions of years were passing in the heavens. This is the inevitable conclusion based on our current knowledge of physics and starting with Biblical assumptions instead of arbitrary ones. Albert Einstein rejected the idea that the Bible could be literally true. He wrote that, "Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the convictions that many of the stories in the Bible could not be true." How ironic that the most ridiculed Biblical story (about a recent, literal, six day creation of the universe) is exactly the story which Albert Einstein’s work has shown to be entirely possible. A comprehensive explanation of Dr. Humphreys work, can be found in his book.

I'm going to stay with my gut instincts that what I was taught in public school is more historically accurate than what I was taught in Sunday school ...  ;)


Page: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 29
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  Pirate's Cove (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Do you believe in "the Devil"? « previous next »
:

Hide Tools Show Tools