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dalbuc

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#30 : August 09, 2009, 01:35:36 AM

Bottom line is, the guy is a 58 percent passer, so accuracy HAS been an issue.  He has had 32 fumbles over the course of his career, so getting HIT is his problem, amongst getting taken down, as a result of his SLOW release.  That is just plain sight knowledge, no skew applied.

true, McCown holds the ball too long, but basically he has less than a full year of starts under his belt.  His timing is obviously off, I hate him for it, but I would rather roll with his legs, and comprable arm, than with Sandwich's ability as a QB over the course of his career.  He has been handed the ball quite often, and has really done nothing to make me think he is going to dominate in Tampa.  It makes me shudder to think he is going to be the guy leading a huddle.

GIVE McCown the ball...let him run the team for a period of time, see what he has.  We simply do not know at this point.  No sample.

A few things that are just plain wrong, Byron has 32 fumbles...so does the guy he backed up - Roth who did it in one less year. Brady has 65. Palmer has 29 despite missing most of last year.  You can say "32" but w/ no context it is measningless and when you look at it in context....it has no meaning and doesn't show what you want it to. Again, for all his slow his sack rate of 5.6 is not all that different than short pass, quick release, fast decision making Brady at 5.3%.

The argument for LM appears to be that:
a) Bryon sucks which is closer to being true than not but not for most of the reasons people make up
b) We've seen X of LM and he's sucked but if we see X+Y then he might make his mental malfunctions vanish in the face of his physical tools. That's a cute thought but Aaron Brooks, Trent Dilfer, Rob Johnson and many, many, many other had a tons of physical tools and couldn't make it work.

Neither is a good answer but Byron offers a known level of suckage that you can at least expect. LM is gonna give you all sorts of goofy, and often bad, outcomes and that is harder to plan around.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

dalbuc

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#31 : August 09, 2009, 01:38:47 AM

Its freakin dumb to say he(lefty) hasn't been exposed! When he has been on 4 teams in 4 years, Has lost his jobs to mid to late round QBs(Garrard & Redman) when he has the 1st rd QB grade,a gun for an arm and "experience". Its also been heavily noted by PR that he pats the ball before he throws(exposed). With Lefty you know what your gonna get,he is pretty much done as far as having potential and getting better. Luke has the chance to get better with time and reps(in no way am I saying he will) but personally i'd roll with the guy that could still get better.

Again, PR can note the "pats the ball" but that statement is meaningless.  It doesn't change that his sack rate and INT rate isn't abnormal so all those brilliant observations don't matter.

Why does Luke have upside? He's 5 years into the league and apparently never earning a job is now a qualification to get one because that unknown magical mystery seems to be his main redeeming factor.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

O.S. Buc76

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#32 : August 09, 2009, 01:40:08 AM

I love it!!  ;D


Boid Fink

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#33 : August 09, 2009, 02:07:42 AM

Bottom line is, the guy is a 58 percent passer, so accuracy HAS been an issue.  He has had 32 fumbles over the course of his career, so getting HIT is his problem, amongst getting taken down, as a result of his SLOW release.  That is just plain sight knowledge, no skew applied.

true, McCown holds the ball too long, but basically he has less than a full year of starts under his belt.  His timing is obviously off, I hate him for it, but I would rather roll with his legs, and comprable arm, than with Sandwich's ability as a QB over the course of his career.  He has been handed the ball quite often, and has really done nothing to make me think he is going to dominate in Tampa.  It makes me shudder to think he is going to be the guy leading a huddle.

GIVE McCown the ball...let him run the team for a period of time, see what he has.  We simply do not know at this point.  No sample.

ANeither is a good answer but Byron offers a known level of suckage that you can at least expect. LM is gonna give you all sorts of goofy, and often bad, outcomes and that is harder to plan around.
Now how exactly do you know with such a small sample size?

A fumble is a fumble.  He may have been doing X, or Y, but he is a turnover machine, and you add that into his TD/INT/FUM ratio, and suddenly, he is not so hot.  His passing percentage is below what you want it to be, and his production is not on par with anyone other than our former QB who was much maligned.

Sandwich is not good, you can spin it all you want, but the guy won with good teams, and is an injury prone non-winner.  He doesn't throw a lot of picks, but he fumbles, he doesn't throw a lot of TDs, but he has "started", which means he can "manage" a game a la Garcia.  But Garcia was tougher, had more pocket mobility, and less arm strength, and suddenly, you are stuck with Brad Johnson.  To put Brady into the same argument as Sandwich is awful...because Brady can make throws, and he has the output to prove it. 

Sandwich has bounced around, and stellar, even decent game manager type QB do not bounce as frequently as he has...

BTW, he fumbles a lot because of that windup, which is an absolutely valid excuse.

And if he was not in the tub (Sandwich), he would also have quite a few more fumbles...and don't think that fumbleitits from a game manager deluxe type QB (Big Ben...the Rapist), is a reason to overlook what he really is...which is a QB who got supplanted and exposed as a fraud of a starter.


Boid Fink

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#34 : August 09, 2009, 02:04:16 AM

Its freakin dumb to say he(lefty) hasn't been exposed! When he has been on 4 teams in 4 years, Has lost his jobs to mid to late round QBs(Garrard & Redman) when he has the 1st rd QB grade,a gun for an arm and "experience". Its also been heavily noted by PR that he pats the ball before he throws(exposed). With Lefty you know what your gonna get,he is pretty much done as far as having potential and getting better. Luke has the chance to get better with time and reps(in no way am I saying he will) but personally i'd roll with the guy that could still get better.

Again, PR can note the "pats the ball" but that statement is meaningless. It doesn't change that his sack rate and INT rate isn't abnormal so all those brilliant observations don't matter.

Why does Luke have upside? He's 5 years into the league and apparently never earning a job is now a qualification to get one because that unknown magical mystery seems to be his main redeeming factor.
It is no further than the fact that Sandwich has bounced arond the NFL for a few years because of his lack of skills.  He is a backup, and as a starter for the BUcs circa 02, yeah...he would have been nice.

But thisyear?  With this offense?  He is gonna be a turd with eyes, much like he was with ATL.  Not a fan, do think there is validity to the observation that he "pats" the ball, which is a no-no that a PRO QB should know.  It reeks that the guy refuses to take into coaching.  Slow windup, failure to secure, no vision (gets hit and fumbles a lot), lack of production, lack of accuracy, no pocket mobility, and suddenly, you see that the car you polished is still a Dodge Neon.  With a spoiler.

And you do not really know what you have with McCown.  Because the guy has not been test driven enough.  PERIOD.



Boid Fink

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#35 : August 09, 2009, 02:09:52 AM

BTW, McCown might have wonthe game versus SF, another comeback bid, if Clayton would have had better field awareness and not run outta the EZ, a la Orlovsky (although not as bad, but still)...


CyberDilemma

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#36 : August 09, 2009, 02:48:03 AM

Sandwich has bounced around, and stellar, even decent game manager type QB do not bounce as frequently as he has...


If I recall, Kurt Warner went thru a spell in the middle of his career when he bounced around from team to team and was a fumble machine. I remember him throwing 6 interceptions in one game and fumbling 6 times in another game.

Boid Fink

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#37 : August 09, 2009, 03:09:27 AM

Sandwich has bounced around, and stellar, even decent game manager type QB do not bounce as frequently as he has...


If I recall, Kurt Warner went thru a spell in the middle of his career when he bounced around from team to team and was a fumble machine. I remember him throwing 6 interceptions in one game and fumbling 6 times in another game.
I recall Kurt Warner being a part of the Greatest Show on Turf.  And Sandwich?  How does he compare now?


Boid Fink

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#38 : August 09, 2009, 03:13:37 AM

Sandwich has bounced around, and stellar, even decent game manager type QB do not bounce as frequently as he has...


If I recall, Kurt Warner went thru a spell in the middle of his career when he bounced around from team to team and was a fumble machine. I remember him throwing 6 interceptions in one game and fumbling 6 times in another game.
I also recall Warner bagging groceries, and then coming in and lighting it up.

Did Sandwich ever do that?

Nope.  BUt he did once score 59 in a basketbal game...as well as get carted around the field by his lineman on a broken leg at Marshall...hmmm...he was injured that game as well?

Ah well.  Look man, I just do not think Sandwich is going to do anything special, and I am sure a lot of you are going to see the suckage that is innately involved in his game...or at least, the averagenessness.  Yeah...that is what I want on Sunday...an average QB....again...


blitz

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#39 : August 09, 2009, 07:39:07 AM

In his only real test, the 2007 season,  McCown completed 67 percent of his passes.   Somehow that number speaks to his potential.  He now has a FO and Coaching staff that believes he can produce.   His exceptional speed for a QB makes him much harder to defense.   Leftwich is definately the insurance policy but Jags offense needs a mobile QB.

king_frog

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#40 : August 09, 2009, 07:57:47 AM

Sandwhich is too damned slow.

Marino was slow too, and this is not comparing him to Marino. Marino was the most Immobile qb EVER. I don't care who has better wheels. it's a QB's job to deliver the ball to the open receiver and produce td's. So far in training camp, Leftwich is the clear winner and there's no denying it.
Leftwich is no Marino !! To even put him in the same sentence is an insult.

Uncle Stan

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#41 : August 09, 2009, 09:00:50 AM

Which is worse?

Indecision and holding the ball too long or a long windup?

Think the effect is basically the same.

Learn to disagree without being disagreeable-Ronald Reagan circa 1981

OKC PAC

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#42 : August 09, 2009, 09:14:18 AM

I love the mcclown loving all offseason...load up his film and watch it the guy is pathetic! 
The McClown excuses are getting ridiculous:
1)  Gruden didn't like him
2)  He has only played with backups
3)  Needs some more experience (dude has been in the league 5 years and is in a heated competition with BYRON LEFTWICH of all people)
4)  A disadvantage for him to play the first game against Ten because this will be there SECOND preseason game
5)  Leftwitch is flat out garbage (true), but the reality is Luke is just as bad if not worse

The reality of the situation is BYRON SUCKS and LUKE SUCKS its pretty obvious too me...instead of seeing if LUKE can prove something has yet to show this offseason and the previous 5 seasons in the league lets just see what we have in our "FRANCHISE QB".  Can he possibly do any worse.....

Bring back GRUDEN!!!

CurtR1995

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#43 : August 09, 2009, 09:23:25 AM

I'd like to see Luke without Gruden's offense and coaching style. 

SunnyD

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#44 : August 09, 2009, 10:06:02 AM

I know you'll whip out the "I'd love to be proven wrong" quote

But I can honestly see you sitting in your basement getting angry at the success of the Bucs offense on the 15th just because you really really want to see the McCown fail.

Thats what your blind hatred is doing to you.

It's making you seem like one of those tools that wants to see his fav team struggle just to be right.
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