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john.matincheck

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« : February 11, 2007, 07:18:51 PM »

Hey All,

Ever since Indy shredded the Bears D I've been wondering if the "Tampa 2" will now be less effective league wide. Did Dungy lay the blueprint for destroying his own defense in that game.

Gruden's offense was once the gold standard in the league and was copied by many. Then came the Superbowl in which Gruden worked with the Buc's D and exposed the weaknesses of the Raiders offense that he designed. I'm wondering if that game plan was copied by others in the league leading to the struggles of Gruden's O ever since.

If so then Dungy may have done the same thing with the D he built and now I wonder if it will soon be an antiquated system in need of a drastic make over.


psymun

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« #1 : February 11, 2007, 07:21:17 PM »

It wasn't Gruden's offense that he attacked... it was Rich Gannon's tendencies...

As for the Colts running over the Bears... the Bears had them on lock until their under tackle went down. Peyton was then able to step up in the pocket and it was all over...


Skull and Bones

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« #2 : February 11, 2007, 07:23:44 PM »

Peyton can make any defense look bad.  The cover 2 won't give up many big plays but he is more than capable of executing a 12 play drive down the field.  The Patroits used a lot of cover 2 against them too.


Fresh

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« #3 : February 11, 2007, 07:24:56 PM »

If you can stop the run the Tampa 2 will be the same.


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BucsPirate

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« #4 : February 11, 2007, 07:48:21 PM »

You can run whatever defense you want, Cover 2, 3-4, 46. It's the players who make it. The Bears defense did a respectable job, even without Harris. Rex Grossman just showed us that you can't win a Superbowl with, well, a Rex Grossman.

corruptpirate

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« #5 : February 11, 2007, 08:08:19 PM »

Aside from their inability to stop the run, the Bears defense did decently considering it was Peyton they were up against. The Wayne TD was a blown coverage and thats what happens when players are out of position. The Bears were pretty much still in the game until Grossman decided that it would be better if the game didn't end by a close margin.

john.matincheck

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« #6 : February 11, 2007, 08:50:38 PM »

That game was way more onesided than the final score. The conditions were bad and the Colts totally sat on the ball in the fourth quarter and they still scored 27 and put up 400 + yards. Bears D was shreaded. Big plays no but in the fourth quarter they were there for the taking if needed.  Granted it has a lot to do with the Bears inability to move the ball on O but overall I still wonder how much damage has been done to the scheme. Everyone knew that the way to attack it is with power running and that you can wear them down. The Colts also utilized the backs more than expected in the short passing game. I think back to the way Brady and the Pats demoralized what was supposed to be the #1 defense in the league in 2005 and it looked very similar to what Manning and company did to the bears. I think for the Bucs D to stay ahead of the curve they need to evolve or the elite QBs will own them moving forward.

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« #7 : February 11, 2007, 08:58:31 PM »

Improve the quality of the front four performance and the Tampa 2 will be restored.  Bears missed their starting DT - Manning could stand there and look at the field.  Tampa 2 requires the front 4 to get pressure - inside and out. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

PoorRichard

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« #8 : February 11, 2007, 09:14:46 PM »

Its all about having the players. The Bears were playing way above their heads the last half of the season and Indy had too much talent for them.

BucLord

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« #9 : February 11, 2007, 09:43:12 PM »

No such thing as the Tampa 2.

Lets not try and rip off the Steelers on this. As much as we actually perfected the "Cover 2". We did nothing to covert the Cover 2 to the Tampa 2. Both are the same.

http://news.steelers.com/article/73586/


By Teresa Varley
Steelers.com

 
One of the most talked about defenses in the NFL these days is the "Cover 2," a stifling system which employs four defensive linemen, three linebackers and four defensive backs, and was perfected by altered by Colts head coach Tony Dungy when he was in the same role with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, giving it the "Tampa 2" moniker.

 

But you won't hear Dungy take credit for the defense. Dungy instead credits learning the defense when he was a safety with the Steelers in 1977-78.

 

"My philosophy is really out of the 1975 Pittsburgh Steelers playbook," said Dungy during media interviews while at Super Bowl XLI. "That is why I have to laugh when I hear 'Tampa 2'. Chuck Noll and Bud Carson - that is where it came from, I changed very little.

 
"Coach Noll just believed in fundamentally sound football, a lot of zone defense, getting fast guys who flew around to the ball and were well disciplined, and that is my background. That really hasn't changed in 30 years."

 
Dungy played for Noll and coached under him for eight seasons, including five years as the Steelers defensive coordinator. In addition to the football knowledge he learned from the Hall of Fame coach, he also learned a lot about the type of personality you can have as a coach, as Dungy's calm demeanor almost mimics the one Noll had.
 

"I was really fortunate coming up and playing for Chuck Noll and working for him for eight years, working for Marty Schottenheimer and Denny Green," said Dungy. "And that's where my coaching philosophy really started. Coach Noll was a teacher. I can remember coming off the field making mistakes in critical, critical situations and Coach would say: What was your thought process out there? What were you looking at? What were you keying? And that's what I needed as a player to help me zero in on my job and not necessarily somebody who was just going to breath down your throat. That was my training and background. I felt if I ever got a job, that's the way I was going to do it.
 

"I grew up under Coach Noll and he was that way. We went to four Super Bowls in Pittsburgh eating dinner with our families at night so I knew you could do it and win


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« #10 : February 11, 2007, 09:46:48 PM »

well it was originally called the tampa 2 but then everyone inherited it and so it became the cover two but to bucs fans it could be either one

T

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« #11 : February 11, 2007, 09:56:20 PM »

The Tampa 2 is dead in my opinion with so many teams playing that style of defense we'll probably never see a dominant defense play the Tampa 2 again. That is why I am hoping the Bucs change up their Defensive style, since everyone knows what to expect from the Buccaneer defense.


alldaway

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« #12 : February 11, 2007, 11:38:26 PM »

T you are clueless.


CrAsH_oVeRdRiVe

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« #13 : February 11, 2007, 11:47:04 PM »

The Cover 2 has the same weaknesses as it's always had. There's no secret on how to beat it. Just like there's no secret how to beat the 46 or a zero blitz. It all lies within execution. All offenses have weaknesses just like all defenses. All of them can be exploited. It's just like one big giant game of rock, paper, sissors, or chesss. It all lies within the execution and talent of your players that wins the games. Not just the x's and o's.

stereochemistry

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« #14 : February 11, 2007, 11:52:28 PM »

The Tampa 2 is different than the Cover 2; whether Dungy has stopped running what is now considered the Tampa 2, or just runs a standard Cover 2 and credits it's originators is his business.

The fundemental difference between them is the MLB.  In the Cover 2, the linebackers play a zone just behind the DLs in a straight line, with the two safeties playing deep cover.  The official version of the Tampa 2 has the MLB playing much deeper, all the way back into the Safeties area, splitting the deep section of the field into 3 zones, and decreasing the middle section to just four zones played by the remaining linebackers and the cornerbacks, instead of the Cover 2's five zones (3 LBs, 2 CBs)

The key to any successful defense is to adapt to the context of the game; no team will be successful ALWAYS playing a zone defense, regardless of it's a base zone, a normal Cover 2 or the Tampa 2.  And the Bucs certainly didn't either, or Ronde Barber wouldn't have 20 career sacks.

The reason the Bears were soundly beaten when playing defense was because they played an extremely soft Tampa/Cover 2, playing off the receivers and not putting any pressure by mixing up their formation.  They gave the Colts everything underneath: 11 of Peyton's 25 completions went to RBs, mostly just out of the backfield underneath.
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