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LFO

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#60 : August 25, 2009, 09:18:26 PM

Until proven otherwise, Big 12 QB's > SEC QB's.� That should be the non-homer stance anyways...

There are probably some WAC QB's who put up great numbers as well, and some D2 QB's also...but at some point competition has to be considered.

The thing about the SEC QB's was you had a few who were men amongst boys, in a defense dominated conference.� The Big 12 seemingly every QB put up huge numbers in a conference with poor defenses.

I think last year the SEC QB's were just as good if not better, all things considered...and it's not "homer"ish to think this year will be any different.� Talent wise the SEC QB's are just as good if not better.� Just because the SEC is breaking in some new guys who have waited their chance (Cox, Jefferson, Mallet, etc.) does not mean they are any worse.� It simply means they haven't had the opportunities of a guy like Robinson.� As of right know, nobody has proven anything THIS year.�

I think it was proven last year the SEC QB's could hang with the Big 12.� I don't think this year is going to be any different.� At this point it is all on paper.� And I believe on paper the SEC QB's stack up just fine with the Big 12, or any other conference for that matter.�

well if your a Big 12 fan you say... the defense puts up big stats because of the poor QB play. You can always use the reverse psychology.

Cox looked like garbage when I saw a re run on ESPN U the other night. And wasnt he the guy who transferred out of TT because Harrell beat him out?

That's fine, but those same defenses put up poor stats against other teams too.  At some point you have to look at the defense and say it's on them.  Plus, as I said, they throw the ball nearly every down so obviously the QB's are going to have the stats.  Snead far outplayed Harrell if you watch that game, but Harrell almost matched him stats wise because he threw twice as much....

I really shouldn't have added Cox in there, but he was just one of the few "new" QB's I recalled off the top of my head.  Not sure if he did, but I don't think it is necessarily an indictment on his play.


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#61 : August 25, 2009, 09:20:01 PM

And I believe on paper the SEC QB's stack up just fine with the Big 12, or any other conference for that matter.�

The QB's you are talking about don't have anything on paper. �They are unproven. �Until they prove otherwise, they aren't better than Robinson or Reesing in college.

By paper I meant talent.

Nobody has anything on paper (by your def) THIS year. 

Put Robinson and Reesing in the SEC and they probably = John Parker Wilson. 

That's not being a homer, that's being realistic. 

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#62 : August 25, 2009, 09:21:48 PM

That's pretty homerish.  Reesing would probably get killed Jeff Garcia style in the SEC, but Robinson could play in the SEC just fine.


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#63 : August 25, 2009, 09:24:15 PM

That's pretty homerish.  Reesing would probably get killed Jeff Garcia style in the SEC, but Robinson could play in the SEC just fine.

Well, as I said I will have more stock in Robinson after the UGA game.  As of now, from what I have seen, I can't tell. 

It's not like the SEC doesn't produce NFL talent.  I'd say more so than the Big 12, by far.  So by me saying the SEC is just as good at QB, I don't think that is being a homer.  The problem is your SEC guys are waiting while many Big 12 guys stay 4 years.  So yes, as I even admitted, this year there are some more proven Big 12 guys, but I think talent wise the SEC matches up just fine.

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#64 : August 25, 2009, 10:49:43 PM

Remember Sneed also was a backup to McCoy... The #2 QB from the Big 12 beat out the #2 SEC QB.


Reesing
McCoy
Robinson
Bradford
all are proven.

Talent wise the SEC may matchup at some point this year, but my argument is the Big 12 has better QB's this year and right now they do.


Every conference produces NFL Talent. Its almost identical. A few years ago it was the ACC. Texas Tech I believe had the most players drafted this year.



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#65 : August 25, 2009, 10:57:08 PM

Remember Sneed also was a backup to McCoy... The #2 QB from the Big 12 beat out the #2 SEC QB.


Reesing
McCoy
Robinson
Bradford
all are proven.

Talent wise the SEC may matchup at some point this year, but my argument is the Big 12 has better QB's this year and right now they do.


Every conference produces NFL Talent. Its almost identical. A few years ago it was the ACC. Texas Tech I believe had the most players drafted this year.



I was referring to QB's.

Who was the last good NFL QB?

Off the top of my head I can think of GREAT QB's in Manning, Manning, and Cutler from the SEC.

Not really concerned about this backup thing.  Sometimes guys don't work out or fit certain systems, or never get a shot.  Hell, Cassel was a backup to Leinart yet who is the better pro?  Doesn't mean anything. 

I understand your argument, and even agreed there are a couple more accomplished guys in the Big 12...but that doesn't mean better.  And also, I think there is something to be said about competition.  Reesing wouldn't come close to his numbers in the SEC.

Stafford was the consensus #1 guy and couldn't muster half the numbers of Bradford/McCoy...is he a worse QB?  Doubtful. 

I think it is a legit argument to say McCoy/Bradford are in the same league as Tebow/Snead.  After that, I think there is some talent in both conferences but I don't see much more talent in the Big 12 than the SEC guys.  I see guys who have had a chance to start, while the SEC guys have been behind other QB's or just starting their careers.  That doesn't mean they are worse, just haven't had a shot yet. 

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#66 : August 25, 2009, 11:00:44 PM

Remember Sneed also was a backup to McCoy... The #2 QB from the Big 12 beat out the #2 SEC QB.


Reesing
McCoy
Robinson
Bradford
all are proven.

Talent wise the SEC may matchup at some point this year, but my argument is the Big 12 has better QB's this year and right now they do.


Every conference produces NFL Talent. Its almost identical. A few years ago it was the ACC. Texas Tech I believe had the most players drafted this year.



I was referring to QB's.

Who was the last good NFL QB?

Off the top of my head I can think of GREAT QB's in Manning, Manning, and Cutler from the SEC.

Not really concerned about this backup thing.  Sometimes guys don't work out or fit certain systems, or never get a shot.  Hell, Cassel was a backup to Leinart yet who is the better pro?  Doesn't mean anything. 

I understand your argument, and even agreed there are a couple more accomplished guys in the Big 12...but that doesn't mean better.  And also, I think there is something to be said about competition.  Reesing wouldn't come close to his numbers in the SEC.

Stafford was the consensus #1 guy and couldn't muster half the numbers of Bradford/McCoy...is he a worse QB?  Doubtful. 

I think it is a legit argument to say McCoy/Bradford are in the same league as Tebow/Snead.  After that, I think there is some talent in both conferences but I don't see much more talent in the Big 12 than the SEC guys.  I see guys who have had a chance to start, while the SEC guys have been behind other QB's or just starting their careers.  That doesn't mean they are worse, just haven't had a shot yet. 

Its not an NFL argument. Big 12 has better CFB QB going into the year. SEC may have better NFL QB but that doesnt matter in college.

I think 9 out of 10 people will take McCoy or Bradford over Sneed.


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#67 : August 25, 2009, 11:05:35 PM

i gotta side with the b12.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

LFO

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#68 : August 25, 2009, 11:08:14 PM

Remember Sneed also was a backup to McCoy... The #2 QB from the Big 12 beat out the #2 SEC QB.


Reesing
McCoy
Robinson
Bradford
all are proven.

Talent wise the SEC may matchup at some point this year, but my argument is the Big 12 has better QB's this year and right now they do.


Every conference produces NFL Talent. Its almost identical. A few years ago it was the ACC. Texas Tech I believe had the most players drafted this year.



I was referring to QB's.

Who was the last good NFL QB?

Off the top of my head I can think of GREAT QB's in Manning, Manning, and Cutler from the SEC.

Not really concerned about this backup thing.  Sometimes guys don't work out or fit certain systems, or never get a shot.  Hell, Cassel was a backup to Leinart yet who is the better pro?  Doesn't mean anything.  

I understand your argument, and even agreed there are a couple more accomplished guys in the Big 12...but that doesn't mean better.  And also, I think there is something to be said about competition.  Reesing wouldn't come close to his numbers in the SEC.

Stafford was the consensus #1 guy and couldn't muster half the numbers of Bradford/McCoy...is he a worse QB?  Doubtful.  

I think it is a legit argument to say McCoy/Bradford are in the same league as Tebow/Snead.  After that, I think there is some talent in both conferences but I don't see much more talent in the Big 12 than the SEC guys.  I see guys who have had a chance to start, while the SEC guys have been behind other QB's or just starting their careers.  That doesn't mean they are worse, just haven't had a shot yet.  

Its not an NFL argument. Big 12 has better CFB QB going into the year. SEC may have better NFL QB but that doesnt matter in college.

I think 9 out of 10 people will take McCoy or Bradford over Sneed.

Snead hasn't gotten near the pub, but in a less pass oriented offense he was the far more valuable player, against better defenses.  

I never said it was an NFL argument, but there is some merit.  Just because the SEC guys aren't throwing it around 60 times a game does not mean they are worse.  Sure, it gets them less pub (outside of Tebow), but reality is Snead/Stafford were just as good as McCoy/Bradford/Harrell only they didn't throw it 600 times nor score 60 a game.  They ran more balanced attacks.  

When matched up Harrell threw about twice as many passes as Snead but only like 25 more yards.  Bradford threw about 10 more than Tebow for about 20 more yards.  Oh, and Miss. and UF won those games.  

We'll see what happens when the games are played.

At one point, Tebow was a backup to Leak and Bradford to a guy who got kicked off the team.  Where are they now?  Just because someone hasn't been given a chance doesn't mean they aren't good.  I have conceded, outside the top 2 the Big 12 has a couple guys who have accomplished more...but talent wise I think they are no better.  

It will be interesting to see how guys like Mallet/Jefferson and some others step in and play.  

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#69 : August 25, 2009, 11:10:33 PM

Out of curiosity.....let's say

Tebow, Stafford, and Snead played in the Big 12 last year...

and McCoy, Bradford, and Harrell played in the SEC.

What would you expect would happen?  I'd say the 3 SEC guys would see a major spike in their numbers, while the Big 12 guys would see a drop. 

Agree?  Disagree?  Why? 

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#70 : August 25, 2009, 11:33:39 PM

Out of curiosity.....let's say

Tebow, Stafford, and Snead played in the Big 12 last year...

and McCoy, Bradford, and Harrell played in the SEC.

What would you expect would happen?  I'd say the 3 SEC guys would see a major spike in their numbers, while the Big 12 guys would see a drop. 

Agree?  Disagree?  Why? 

depends what offenses they ran, and the teams they were on.

Im not arguing the SEC top 2 are about = to the Big 12. But where the big 12 seperates it self is the Zac Robinson, Reesing, and Baylor QB


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#71 : August 25, 2009, 11:38:14 PM

Out of curiosity.....let's say

Tebow, Stafford, and Snead played in the Big 12 last year...

and McCoy, Bradford, and Harrell played in the SEC.

What would you expect would happen?  I'd say the 3 SEC guys would see a major spike in their numbers, while the Big 12 guys would see a drop. 

Agree?  Disagree?  Why? 

depends what offenses they ran, and the teams they were on.

Im not arguing the SEC top 2 are about = to the Big 12. But where the big 12 seperates it self is the Zac Robinson, Reesing, and Baylor QB

And what I am saying is....those guys would probably be more average in the SEC over a Big 12 where defense is an afterthought.  Those guys are more familiar to most (just like Snead was somewhat obscure) because of the lack of defense and plethora of pass first offenses. 

IMO Reesing/Robinson/Baylor QB are no better than say a John Parker Wilson, except JPW played in a run oriented offense against better defenses. 

Talent wise, I think there is no gap.  Obviously, the Big 12 guys have put up numbers, primarily (IMO) because of worse defenses and opportunity. 

I won't argue (and have stated multiple times) some of the Big 12 guys are more accomplished at this juncture, what I will argue is that there is not a talent discrepancy. 

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#72 : August 25, 2009, 11:52:24 PM

Out of curiosity.....let's say

Tebow, Stafford, and Snead played in the Big 12 last year...

and McCoy, Bradford, and Harrell played in the SEC.

What would you expect would happen?  I'd say the 3 SEC guys would see a major spike in their numbers, while the Big 12 guys would see a drop. 

Agree?  Disagree?  Why? 

depends what offenses they ran, and the teams they were on.

Im not arguing the SEC top 2 are about = to the Big 12. But where the big 12 seperates it self is the Zac Robinson, Reesing, and Baylor QB

And what I am saying is....those guys would probably be more average in the SEC over a Big 12 where defense is an afterthought.  Those guys are more familiar to most (just like Snead was somewhat obscure) because of the lack of defense and plethora of pass first offenses. 

IMO Reesing/Robinson/Baylor QB are no better than say a John Parker Wilson, except JPW played in a run oriented offense against better defenses. 

Talent wise, I think there is no gap.  Obviously, the Big 12 guys have put up numbers, primarily (IMO) because of worse defenses and opportunity. 

I won't argue (and have stated multiple times) some of the Big 12 guys are more accomplished at this juncture, what I will argue is that there is not a talent discrepancy. 

I dont know. I watched Auburn/LSU on ESPN U yesterday and the QB whoever they were (I think they used 4), were flat out awful. I dont know how that game was shown as a re-run. I mean didnt Cox and the Kentucky QB get voted preseason as like 3rd team SEC and werent both benched at one point during the year last year? So the voters are saying going into the year the 3rd best QB's were players at one point lost there job last year...

The offenses ran in the Big 12 are a lot different than the SEC. And the focus in each conference is a lot different. SEC primarly is a defensive conference well Big 12 is offense.


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#73 : August 25, 2009, 11:54:59 PM

Out of curiosity.....let's say

Tebow, Stafford, and Snead played in the Big 12 last year...

and McCoy, Bradford, and Harrell played in the SEC.

What would you expect would happen?  I'd say the 3 SEC guys would see a major spike in their numbers, while the Big 12 guys would see a drop. 

Agree?  Disagree?  Why? 

depends what offenses they ran, and the teams they were on.

Im not arguing the SEC top 2 are about = to the Big 12. But where the big 12 seperates it self is the Zac Robinson, Reesing, and Baylor QB

And what I am saying is....those guys would probably be more average in the SEC over a Big 12 where defense is an afterthought.  Those guys are more familiar to most (just like Snead was somewhat obscure) because of the lack of defense and plethora of pass first offenses. 

IMO Reesing/Robinson/Baylor QB are no better than say a John Parker Wilson, except JPW played in a run oriented offense against better defenses. 

Talent wise, I think there is no gap.  Obviously, the Big 12 guys have put up numbers, primarily (IMO) because of worse defenses and opportunity. 

I won't argue (and have stated multiple times) some of the Big 12 guys are more accomplished at this juncture, what I will argue is that there is not a talent discrepancy. 

I dont know. I watched Auburn/LSU on ESPN U yesterday and the QB whoever they were (I think they used 4), were flat out awful. I dont know how that game was shown as a re-run. I mean didnt Cox and the Kentucky QB get voted preseason as like 3rd team SEC and werent both benched at one point during the year last year? So the voters are saying going into the year the 3rd best QB's were players at one point lost there job last year...

The offenses ran in the Big 12 are a lot different than the SEC. And the focus in each conference is a lot different. SEC primarly is a defensive conference well Big 12 is offense.

I was referring to Cox at UGA, not Auburn.  He sat behind Stafford for 3 years. 

Auburn last year was in turmoil, tried to bring in a new offense without the players, and then abandoned it midway and fired the OC. 

I suppose we'll see how this all shakes out as the season unfolds.

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#74 : August 26, 2009, 12:01:50 AM

Out of curiosity.....let's say

Tebow, Stafford, and Snead played in the Big 12 last year...

and McCoy, Bradford, and Harrell played in the SEC.

What would you expect would happen?  I'd say the 3 SEC guys would see a major spike in their numbers, while the Big 12 guys would see a drop. 

Agree?  Disagree?  Why? 

depends what offenses they ran, and the teams they were on.

Im not arguing the SEC top 2 are about = to the Big 12. But where the big 12 seperates it self is the Zac Robinson, Reesing, and Baylor QB

And what I am saying is....those guys would probably be more average in the SEC over a Big 12 where defense is an afterthought.  Those guys are more familiar to most (just like Snead was somewhat obscure) because of the lack of defense and plethora of pass first offenses. 

IMO Reesing/Robinson/Baylor QB are no better than say a John Parker Wilson, except JPW played in a run oriented offense against better defenses. 

Talent wise, I think there is no gap.  Obviously, the Big 12 guys have put up numbers, primarily (IMO) because of worse defenses and opportunity. 

I won't argue (and have stated multiple times) some of the Big 12 guys are more accomplished at this juncture, what I will argue is that there is not a talent discrepancy. 

I dont know. I watched Auburn/LSU on ESPN U yesterday and the QB whoever they were (I think they used 4), were flat out awful. I dont know how that game was shown as a re-run. I mean didnt Cox and the Kentucky QB get voted preseason as like 3rd team SEC and werent both benched at one point during the year last year? So the voters are saying going into the year the 3rd best QB's were players at one point lost there job last year...

The offenses ran in the Big 12 are a lot different than the SEC. And the focus in each conference is a lot different. SEC primarly is a defensive conference well Big 12 is offense.

I was referring to Cox at UGA, not Auburn.  He sat behind Stafford for 3 years. 

Auburn last year was in turmoil, tried to bring in a new offense without the players, and then abandoned it midway and fired the OC. 

I suppose we'll see how this all shakes out as the season unfolds.

I agree, we'll see how everything shakes out.

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