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GhostRider

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#15 : August 26, 2009, 11:28:00 AM

No, that's the not the problem with Christianity. God is not telling Christians to kill homosexuals.

Link?



Here are some examples to illustrate my point:


"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)"


"You should not let a sorceress live.  (Exodus 22:17 NAB)"

 "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)"

"A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death." (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

"Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. " (Exodus 21:15 NAB)


"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. " (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)


"They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman." (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)


 Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)








Biggs3535

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#16 : August 26, 2009, 11:42:54 AM

Ever heard of the New Testament?


GhostRider

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#17 : August 26, 2009, 11:46:36 AM

Ever heard of the New Testament?

Are you stating that the New Testament completely invalidates the Old Testament?


Biggs3535

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#18 : August 26, 2009, 11:55:46 AM

Ever heard of the New Testament?

Are you stating that the New Testament completely invalidates the Old Testament?

No, that's not what I'm saying.

The Bible contradicts itself in many places.  The New Testament is much more pertinent to a Christian's daily life than the Old Testament is.  Only a very, very small percentage of Christians (and Jews for that matter) would put any stock in the verses you quoted - but don't let that you from your ignorance on the issue.


mrtks

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#19 : August 26, 2009, 11:56:47 AM

He brings up some valid points

ok, care to elaborate?


The entire transcript is pretty accurate
How very broadminded and Christian of you. And stupid.


GhostRider

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#20 : August 26, 2009, 11:58:34 AM

Ever heard of the New Testament?

Are you stating that the New Testament completely invalidates the Old Testament?

No, that's not what I'm saying.

The Bible contradicts itself in many places. The New Testament is much more pertinent to a Christian's daily life than the Old Testament is. Only a very, very small percentage of Christians (and Jews for that matter) would put any stock in the verses you quoted - but don't let that you from your ignorance on the issue.

So, educate me, since you seem to have it all figured out...

If the preface of the religion is based on the word of god via the Bible, how can one pick and choose what is and isn't relevent.  Where in the New Testament does it say that god suddenly changed his mind about the old doctrine?  


Biggs3535

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#21 : August 26, 2009, 12:00:31 PM

Where in the New Testament does it say that god suddenly changed his mind about the old doctrine? �

This question proves my point.

You think you know a lot about the religion, but you do not.  If you are honestly questioning I would spend time answering, but you aren't.  That much is proven from your past posts.  I won't be wasting my time with you about it anymore.


GhostRider

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#22 : August 26, 2009, 12:03:55 PM

Where in the New Testament does it say that god suddenly changed his mind about the old doctrine? �

This question proves my point.

You think you know a lot about the religion, but you do not.  If you are honestly questioning I would spend time answering, but you aren't. That much is proven from your past posts. I won't be wasting my time with you about it anymore.

Sounds like a cop-out.


spartan

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#23 : August 26, 2009, 12:08:46 PM

Ever heard of the New Testament?

Are you stating that the New Testament completely invalidates the Old Testament?

No, that's not what I'm saying.

The Bible contradicts itself in many places. The New Testament is much more pertinent to a Christian's daily life than the Old Testament is. Only a very, very small percentage of Christians (and Jews for that matter) would put any stock in the verses you quoted - but don't let that you from your ignorance on the issue.

So, educate me, since you seem to have it all figured out...

If the preface of the religion is based on the word of god via the Bible, how can one pick and choose what is and isn't relevent. �Where in the New Testament does it say that god suddenly changed his mind about the old doctrine? �

When a child is young you set stringent rules about what it can and cannot do. The reason being is that they do not know what is right and wrong, and they do not know or fully understand what may or may not hurt them and others. As a child grows, these rules are relaxed. You allow the child to play in the front yard and not restrict them to the back yard. You don't however allow them play with a loaded gun regardless of their age. As that child grows into adulthood some of the rules imposed when they were young simply do not apply. That does not mean that imposing them at that time was any less legitimate.

GhostRider

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#24 : August 26, 2009, 12:13:49 PM

Ever heard of the New Testament?

Are you stating that the New Testament completely invalidates the Old Testament?

No, that's not what I'm saying.

The Bible contradicts itself in many places. The New Testament is much more pertinent to a Christian's daily life than the Old Testament is. Only a very, very small percentage of Christians (and Jews for that matter) would put any stock in the verses you quoted - but don't let that you from your ignorance on the issue.

So, educate me, since you seem to have it all figured out...

If the preface of the religion is based on the word of god via the Bible, how can one pick and choose what is and isn't relevent. �Where in the New Testament does it say that god suddenly changed his mind about the old doctrine? �

When a child is young you set stringent rules about what it can and cannot do. The reason being is that they do not know what is right and wrong, and they do not know or fully understand what may or may not hurt them and others. As a child grows, these rules are relaxed. You allow the child to play in the front yard and not restrict them to the back yard. You don't however allow them play with a loaded gun regardless of their age. As that child grows into adulthood some of the rules imposed when they were young simply do not apply. That does not mean that imposing them at that time was any less legitimate.

Please reference the part of the Bible that says this.


hoodsbucs

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#25 : August 26, 2009, 12:29:35 PM

He brings up some valid points

ok, care to elaborate?


The entire transcript is pretty accurate
How very broadminded and Christian of you. And stupid.

hook and catch doofus

cyberdude557

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#26 : August 26, 2009, 12:32:20 PM

Christians that hate on homosexuals point to Leviticus:

"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."
-Leviticus 20:13

However, Leviticus is almost never practiced by modern day Christians, except for the nuts.


GhostRider

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#27 : August 26, 2009, 12:33:30 PM

Christians that hate on homosexuals point to Leviticus:

"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."
-Leviticus 20:13

However, Leviticus is almost never practiced by modern day Christians, except for the nuts.



Why not?  Is that book less of god's word than the rest?


njligernj

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#28 : August 26, 2009, 12:50:59 PM

Where in the New Testament does it say that god suddenly changed his mind about the old doctrine? �

This question proves my point.

You think you know a lot about the religion, but you do not.  If you are honestly questioning I would spend time answering, but you aren't. That much is proven from your past posts. I won't be wasting my time with you about it anymore.

Sounds like a cop-out.

I'd have to agree. I haven't "proven" anything by past posts to you Biggs so maybe you could answer the question for me as I'd truly like to know:

Where in the New Testament does it say that god suddenly changed his mind about the old doctrine?

How can you put so much stock and faith in something and yet ignore wide portions of it as not being relevant to modern life?

I totally get why you'd want to ignore them: isn't there a part about not wearing mixed blend fabrics? growing beards? avoiding impure women? ... all things which would make daily life extremely difficult. However if I were to build a strong personal belief around something I don't know how I could reconcile the idea of just ignoring certain parts. There is an interesting book I read about a guy who interprets the bible literally -- very entertaining but an extremely difficult and time consuming way to live (The Year of Living Biblically: One Man's Humble Quest to Follow the Bible as Literally as Possible by A. J. Jacobs).

Plus, even if you accept that you should ignore parts, even then there is disagreement over want to ignore. You (probably) wear mixed fabrics without thinking about it (and most do) but then lots of people who ignore that part would quote scripture to comdemn gays (while others would again ignore that part as well). Internet arguments and insults aside it is genuinely confusing.

Even among those who condemn homosexuality there are more contradictions. They (mostly) don't suggest death. So you can quote scripture to say they shouldn't be allowed to get married but then say "but we aren't actually going to kill you because that would be too much" ... but that's what it says to do. It's either right (so kill 'em) or it's wrong (so let 'em marry). The picking and choosing is honestly, all "trying to win arguments" aside, very confusing.

If the answer is "well it's just intended as guidelines and not to be taken literally" then why have that stuff in there at all? What "general and not literal guideline" is the stuff about fabrics or any of those oft-ignored rules? Not to mention we still have laws based on a lot of this stuff so its hard to reconcile the idea of some being a guideline easily ignored entirely and some being literal enough to enact laws.

spartan

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#29 : August 26, 2009, 12:39:20 PM

Ever heard of the New Testament?

Are you stating that the New Testament completely invalidates the Old Testament?

No, that's not what I'm saying.

The Bible contradicts itself in many places. The New Testament is much more pertinent to a Christian's daily life than the Old Testament is. Only a very, very small percentage of Christians (and Jews for that matter) would put any stock in the verses you quoted - but don't let that you from your ignorance on the issue.

So, educate me, since you seem to have it all figured out...

If the preface of the religion is based on the word of god via the Bible, how can one pick and choose what is and isn't relevent. �Where in the New Testament does it say that god suddenly changed his mind about the old doctrine? �

When a child is young you set stringent rules about what it can and cannot do. The reason being is that they do not know what is right and wrong, and they do not know or fully understand what may or may not hurt them and others. As a child grows, these rules are relaxed. You allow the child to play in the front yard and not restrict them to the back yard. You don't however allow them play with a loaded gun regardless of their age. As that child grows into adulthood some of the rules imposed when they were young simply do not apply. That does not mean that imposing them at that time was any less legitimate.

Please reference the part of the Bible that says this.

 ï¿½Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them...� Lev 1:2
�Speak unto the children of Israel, saying...� Lev 4:2
�Speak unto the children of Israel, saying...� Lev 11:2
�Speak unto the children of Israel, saying...� Lev 12:2
�Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them...� Lev 15:2
....
 ï¿½Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them...� Lev 27:2.

I'm not Jewish.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.
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