Leinart

[leeroybuc93]

Maybe you misunderstood. At the time I thought Leinert was the best QB in the draft but not the concensus #1 overall.

Gotcha.  He's certainly making a case for it now though.  I thought the Titans were crazy for taking Young over him and the Raiders were worse than that for passing on him. 

[rayfsc07]

Gotcha. He's certainly making a case for it now though. I thought the Titans were crazy for taking Young over him and the Raiders were worse than that for passing on him.

You can't judge the Titans for taking Young over Leinart until several years from now.  Everyone knew Young was more of a "project" than Leinart, and that Leinart was the more ready QB to step in and play effective sooner.

Young's numbers aren't better, but he HAS led his team to a victory and almost beat Indy. He also has a lot less talent to work with than Leinart.

[buckit]

bradentonian--You're in good company.  I picked Leinart to be the draft's biggest bust.  Guess I blew that one...lol.


Reggie bush is already showing signs of greatness.  The guy is phenomally talented and is blessed to be playing for a head coach that is bringing him along correctly.  Reggie Bush will rival LT, easily.

With all this talk of Bush and Leinart, what about Vince Young?  Who can deny that the Titans are a totally different team with that kid at the helm.  

[caradoc]

Being in AZ cerainly will help him with the weapons he has around him.  The line could be better but having Edge, Bolden, and Fitz certainly makes it a lot easier.  His strength is in reading defense and getting rid of the ball, so that certainly plays to the cards only weakness on Offense which is the OL.  I still think when all is said and done Young will be better but Leinart certainly fell into a better situation.  Young has done a lot better I think than people figured as he was supposed to have a very long learning curve.  His numbers aren't great but he has looked better as he gains experience and he really has nothing around him to speak of as far as weapons on offense go.  Like every young QB he has his moments where he looks very good and others where he looks lost.

Doesn't matter.  They're cursed.

[rayfsc07]

bradentonian--You're in good company.  I picked Leinart to be the draft's biggest bust.  Guess I blew that one...lol.


Reggie bush is already showing signs of greatness.  The guy is phenomally talented and is blessed to be playing for a head coach that is bringing him along correctly.  Reggie Bush will rival LT, easily.

With all this talk of Bush and Leinart, what about Vince Young?  Who can deny that the Titans are a totally different team with that kid at the helm.  

I like to hold off on judging all these guys, especially Leinart and Young who have only started a few games.  As they get more game tape teams will start to scheme them more.  I still think Young will be better in the long run, but it looks like both will be fairly good QB's at worst for the next 10+ years.

As far as Bush, I don't see him rivaling LT, I think that's a bit much.  He has been ok I guess but nothing spectacular.  I see him make more dumb runs for losses than big plays.  I mean, he's only averaging 3 yards a carry.  195 yards rushing and 285 receiving in 6 games does not rival LT, or even close.  Other than the Big punt return against us (which was more blocking than him) he hasn't really done jack there either.

[Boid Fink]

With all this talk of Bush and Leinart, what about Vince Young?  Who can deny that the Titans are a totally different team with that kid at the helm.  

He is a big, mobile QB with a lot of work left ahead of him.  But he is going to be a young McNair type QB, IMO.  Of course, McNair won the MVP when he got older, so I think great things lay in the wait for Vince as well.

[buckit]

Bush gets a lot less carries than LT.  Physically, he's every bit as talented.  Just wait till he has a season or 2 under his belt, and his coach lets him out of the gate for real.  

[Boid Fink]

Bush gets a lot less carries than LT.  Physically, he's every bit as talented.  Just wait till he has a season or 2 under his belt, and his coach lets him out of the gate for real. 

I think he is being used perfectly by the 5 and 1 Saints.

He runs a few (change of pace, capable of going off for the big one, and gives a breather to Deuce who is injury prone), he makes catches all over the places where RBs are supposed to (leads the NFL, not too shabby), and he is a ST threat.  I agree Buckit, in a few years, he will be the difference maker.

[rayfsc07]

Bush gets a lot less carries than LT.  Physically, he's every bit as talented.  Just wait till he has a season or 2 under his belt, and his coach lets him out of the gate for real. 

Less carries or not, he averages 3 yards a pop on the ones he does get.  Deuce averages 4.9 a carry so you can't say it's the O-line

He is a good receiver out of the backfield, but he is nowhere near LT or what LT was his first year.

Bush problem from what I see is he runs aorund too much trying to make big plays, and gets way too many big losses. He could do that in college where everyone was much slower and his team was far superior, but it's not working in the NFL. 

I'll stand by what I said about him all along, he will be an average to above average NFL player, but not this superstar savior that he was made out to be.

[bradentonian]

bradentonian--You're in good company.  I picked Leinart to be the draft's biggest bust.  Guess I blew that one...lol.


Reggie bush is already showing signs of greatness.  The guy is phenomally talented and is blessed to be playing for a head coach that is bringing him along correctly.  Reggie Bush will rival LT, easily.

With all this talk of Bush and Leinart, what about Vince Young?  Who can deny that the Titans are a totally different team with that kid at the helm.  

I think Bush compares more favorably to Westbrook than LT.  At this point he isn't nearly as good, IMO, but that should change when he gets used to the speed of the defenders at the pro level.

[rayfsc07]

I think Bush compares more favorably to Westbrook than LT.  At this point he isn't nearly as good, IMO, but that should change when he gets used to the speed of the defenders at the pro level.

I think Westbrook is probably a fair comparison.  A good but not great RB who struggles staying on the field due to various injuries.  They are about the same weight as wlel, with Bush being a little taller.

[RedAlert]

I think Westbrook is probably a fair comparison. A good but not great RB who struggles staying on the field due to various injuries. They are about the same weight as wlel, with Bush being a little taller.

Does that mean you think Bush will struggle with injuries?

[rayfsc07]

Does that mean you think Bush will struggle with injuries?

That depends.  Westbrook in his first couple years didn't have any injuries because he didn't touch the ball a lot.  His last 2 years he averaged about 20 touches a game and has missed 5 games.  Bush is getting it at about that rate now.  I think he might be ok at that rate, but if he gets around the 25+ mark he will struggle with injuries.

People are saying wait until he gets the ball more and he'll produce.  I disagree.  I think if he gets the ball much more he'll breakdown as he isn't built to handle the ball a whole lot.

However, I think what NO does helps him, as he gets a lot of touches in the passing game where he is less likely to take big hits.

I think Ideally for Bush he carries the ball 10-15 times a game and catches 5-8 passes a game.  Throw him back for a PR every now and then.  That is about what he gets now which I think is perfect for him in order to max out his production and stay healthy.

[RedAlert]

He's bigger than Warrick Dunn

That depends. Westbrook in his first couple years didn't have any injuries because he didn't touch the ball a lot. His last 2 years he averaged about 20 touches a game and has missed 5 games. Bush is getting it at about that rate now. I think he might be ok at that rate, but if he gets around the 25+ mark he will struggle with injuries.

People are saying wait until he gets the ball more and he'll produce. I disagree. I think if he gets the ball much more he'll breakdown as he isn't built to handle the ball a whole lot.

However, I think what NO does helps him, as he gets a lot of touches in the passing game where he is less likely to take big hits.

I think Ideally for Bush he carries the ball 10-15 times a game and catches 5-8 passes a game. Throw him back for a PR every now and then. That is about what he gets now which I think is perfect for him in order to max out his production and stay healthy.

Fair enough, but Warrick Dunn isn't as big and he's been able to stay upright. Barry Sanders wasn't a big back, Walter Payton barely broke 200 lbs and he was pretty durable behind a bad OL for a lot of his career. I'm not saying Bush is going to be Payton or Sanders or even Dunn, but to assume he'd get hurt just by virtue of his size is something of a reach...

[rayfsc07]

He's bigger than Warrick Dunn
Fair enough, but Warrick Dunn isn't as big and he's been able to stay upright. Barry Sanders wasn't a big back, Walter Payton barely broke 200 lbs and he was pretty durable behind a bad OL for a lot of his career. I'm not saying Bush is going to be Payton or Sanders or even Dunn, but to assume he'd get hurt just by virtue of his size is something of a reach...

I am not basing it just on his size though.

With Payton and Barry you are talking 2 of the greatest backs ever.  When Payton played I don't think the defenses were as big and fast as they are now though either. 

As for Dunn, he also averages under 20 touches a game I think every season of his career.  This is the mold in which Bush will have the most success IMO.