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Feel Real Good

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#30 : September 02, 2009, 10:01:09 AM

Some don't think Freeman is the answer at QB(myself), and McCown may have been a better long-term fit than Freeman. �Just because Freeman is Morris' choice, bride, "future", "frachise QB", doesn't mean squat on the field. Morris has coddled Freeman and annointed him the "Second Coming" without so much as a snap in the NFL. Very simply put, if Freeman bombs, which is a distinct possibility, Morris is GONE. �He's backed himself into a corner, which, IMO, doesn't bode well for his future, or the future of the Bucs. �If Freeman flops, what do we have? �Morris is WAY to close to this QB, and is WAY to personally invested in Freeman, for my liking.
That's the way it is for every coach other than Gruden. If Matt Schaub can't stay healthy in Houston, Kubiak will be gone. If Kyle Orton craps the bed in Denver, McDaniels will be gone. If Cassell is the next Scott Mitchell in Kansas City, Haley will be gone. If Stafford sucks after 3-4 years in Detroit, Schwartz will be gone. If Sanchez sucks after 3-4 years in New York, Ryan will be gone. At the least Morris has the guts to stake his reputation on one player. If it doesn't work out, we'll get a new coach and new quarterback and move on. That's what the rest of the NFL does. Why should Gruden get to coach indefinitely with cast off after cast off?

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

dalbuc

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#31 : September 02, 2009, 10:01:19 AM

Probably easier for some of them DE's to get a sack fumble like in the last game if he's got the ball way out behind him when he throws. Leftwich sucks.

Except you look at his career and his sack and fumble rates are not abnormal so whatever issues he might have are not worse than guys with "good" deliveries.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

cheveliar

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#32 : September 02, 2009, 10:06:36 AM

Ok if you think JG should still be here that's cool to think it but he's not, so why rail?  If you think Luke didn't get a fair shot, you're entitled, but he's not the starter, so why moan? If you think Lefty sucks, that's cool, but he's our starter so why be upset?  It's at worst for one year.  Do any of you expect the playoffs?  Better than .500?  I mean, C'mon man!  LOL

My point is it's going to be a long season guys we've debated these topics to death and at some point and time, even you extremists one way or the other, have to know its wasted motion.  

I don't want this to happen, but my prediction is Byron doesn't win, and after the bye week the kid plays...any takers?

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


CyberDilemma

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#33 : September 02, 2009, 10:06:59 AM

Why should Gruden get to coach indefinitely with cast off after cast off?

'Cause his new crush, Tebow, hasn't been drafted yet.

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#34 : September 02, 2009, 10:09:41 AM

If Gruden coaches a team that gets Tebow, I'll be a fan of that team.   I like both of them.

CyberDilemma

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#35 : September 02, 2009, 10:11:49 AM



I don't want this to happen, but my prediction is Byron doesn't win, and after the bye week the kid plays...any takers?

I actually don't see Morris having that much patience to go until the bye week without winning. I think he will have Leftwich on a shorter leash than that as long as McCown is still on the roster. If they both fail, then here comes Freeman.

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#36 : September 02, 2009, 10:14:26 AM

Just start Freeman.

donny77

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#37 : September 02, 2009, 10:18:56 AM

I find it funny that we cut so many players this offseason so that we could see what the younger guys could do, yet instead of seeing what Luke could do over a full season we sign a guy who has proven he can't get the job done. Raheem can talk about Byron's leadership all he wants, nobody follows a loser, and that's what Byron is. Once those L's start to pile up it's going to be funny watching Raheem "in over his head" Morris try to spin things to try and back this bum.
Luke is 28, Leftwich 29.  Luke is not one of the young players on this roster.  He is not the future.  That has always been clear and honest.  He was offered an opportunity to audition for 31 teams in this league.  All he had to do was win the starting job.

And Byron isn't the future either. They gave Luke 2.5 million which turns out to be a complete waste, and please tell me what Byron did to win the starting job, I'd love to hear it.

You're missing the point.  Neither Leftwich nor McCown was/is ever meant to be the future.  I never said he was.  They want to sit Freeman for a "year" although I think it will actually be less.  There is nothing inherently wrong with that.  

As for Leftwich/McCown, Byron did nothing to win the job.  He didn't have to.  He has experience.  McCown doesn't.  It was McCowns responsibility to win the job from Leftwich, not the other way around.  Leftwich has won by default, because McCown couldn't be consistent.  And McCown was given every opportunity.  He got more starter reps than Leftwich this offseason.

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#38 : September 02, 2009, 10:19:55 AM

Lots of camps, not just two. �Here's some..

People who did not want Gruden fired and disagree with the Morris hire are going to take the counter view no matter what. �Turmoil in the Morris era is good. �Morris chooses McCown? �Say Leftwich is better. �Chooses Leftwich? �Say McCown or Freeman.

People who are player sentimentals - who think we made broken promises to McCardell, who believe we've mistreated every vet we've parted ways with starting with John Lynch all the way up through Derrick Brooks and now (pending) Matt Bryant, who believe that McCown showed loyalty in the Bucs organization to re-sign, and despite a statistically better pre-season, may be experiencing McCardellian broken promises. �

People who are future oriented, and don't understand why we aren't playing Freeman. �The belief is not that adversity will ruin the young QB if he's truly "the one", and if it some how does, he was never the great QB we thought. �To them, we are only delaying his development, and extending our misery as a team.

People who just can't stand Leftwich's mechanics, and envision batted balls, laser-like 5 yard passes, brilliant throws followed by horrible looking throws, sacks galore. �

People who cannot stand McCown no matter what. �The made their decision on him long ago, and are perplexed that he's even in the conversation. �They will take Leftwich because he's not McCown, but may be still wishing Garcia would somehow come back. �Think the NO game was a fluke, and his safety taken tarnished his comeback win anyway.

People who truly love McCown and saw the NO game as a window into his potential. �They are particularly annoyed that he's never been given a true opportunity to start a full season, particularly when the likes of Bruce Gradkowski have been.

People who think Josh Johnson is the best QB on this roster, and has gotten an even more raw deal than McCown.

But just wait. �This is NOTHING. �After Leftwich and McCown are just faint memories, and Josh is going through his early NFL growing pains, this fan base will re-divide into a "Give Freeman a chance" camp, and a "we could have had Tebow" camp (future participants in this camp are currently biding their time in the "we could have had Percy Harvin" camp).



Vlad... the whole thing is genius and way to close to the truth.

*******************************Luck happens when hard work meets opportunity.

DanTurksGhost

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#39 : September 02, 2009, 10:38:27 AM

please tell me what Byron did to win the starting job, I'd love to hear it.

He outperformed Luke in all of the intangible aspects that the coaching staff was looking for.

tbc_bucs

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#40 : September 02, 2009, 10:50:01 AM

If you have 2 QB's you dont have one.

I dont think QB play will be our strong suit this year but with our ability to run the football and Lefty's ability to throw the (inaccurate) deep ball defenses have to respect it. McCown was becoming captain checkdown jr. and I think that more than anything else is what hurt his chances.

Unfortunately, McCown has been affected by Gruden's philosophy and Leftwich has not. That is what won Byron the job.


Skull and Bones

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#41 : September 02, 2009, 11:20:28 AM

Some don't think Freeman is the answer at QB(myself), and McCown may have been a better long-term fit than Freeman.  Just because Freeman is Morris' choice, bride, "future", "frachise QB", doesn't mean squat on the field. Morris has coddled Freeman and annointed him the "Second Coming" without so much as a snap in the NFL. Very simply put, if Freeman bombs, which is a distinct possibility, Morris is GONE.  He's backed himself into a corner, which, IMO, doesn't bode well for his future, or the future of the Bucs.  If Freeman flops, what do we have?  Morris is WAY to close to this QB, and is WAY to personally invested in Freeman, for my liking.
I don't think he would have gotten the job in the 1st place unless he said he was willing to draft a QB and develop him, which is what ownership wanted and why Gruden/Allen were fired.  It is what it is.


Booker Reese

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#42 : September 02, 2009, 11:36:36 AM

agree with Scholty - Vlad nailed the "camps."

I'm one of those that has no animus toward Luke - I thought Gruden should have yanked Garcia in week 1 last year and put in Luke. I thought he should have been the guy to start at Atlanta. That said, this "broken promise" stuff is just laughable.

(a) McCown has said repeatedly that Morris was up front about the fact that there would be competition;
(b) I refuse to feel sympathy for a guy who was handed $2.5 million up front with just 7 starts to his name.

Personally I love all the abnormal stuff in Lefty's delivery - it reminds me of a 70s pitcher like Louis Tiant, or an old-school QB like Joe Kapp. I find McCown's lack of boldness and pocket presence much more infuriating. My take is that he learned too much from Paul Hackett - he hasn't looked like the exciting player in the Saints game for some time.

Dalbuc makes a great point about the delivery issues - it's more about accuracy than anything - but we need to remember that he's a 58% passer, not the 50%ish guy we've seen in the preseason.

I feel like a broken record, but we have to remember sample size - we are looking at a miniscule number of dropbacks. The coaches have seen more throws by these guys in a morning practice than we've seen in the games.

Uncle Stan

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#43 : September 02, 2009, 12:41:46 PM

Booker,

The coaches?  What the hell do they know?

Grow up!

Learn to disagree without being disagreeable-Ronald Reagan circa 1981

CeriousBuc

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#44 : September 02, 2009, 12:55:26 PM

Some don't think Freeman is the answer at QB(myself), and McCown may have been a better long-term fit than Freeman. ?Just because Freeman is Morris' choice, bride, "future", "frachise QB", doesn't mean squat on the field. Morris has coddled Freeman and annointed him the "Second Coming" without so much as a snap in the NFL. Very simply put, if Freeman bombs, which is a distinct possibility, Morris is GONE. ?He's backed himself into a corner, which, IMO, doesn't bode well for his future, or the future of the Bucs. ?If Freeman flops, what do we have? ?Morris is WAY to close to this QB, and is WAY to personally invested in Freeman, for my liking.

Rex Ryan is tied to Mark Sanchez
Jim Schwartz is tied to Matthew Stafford

All coaches are tied to high draft pick QB's if for no other reason than a failed pick usually = losing records which = getting fired

The notion that LM, who is now proven worse than BL, is the better long-term fit is laughable.

It's worse than laughable Dal, it's downright insane.

Somehow a guy (and lets be honet McCown is just a guy in this league) who has had quite a few offseasons worth of development under his belt and has shown once again that he cannot win the job, is a better long term solution than a rookie with one offseason's worth of experience coming to a close. Wow! All of the naysayers should give Freeman four or five years worth of development and excuses like they gave McCown. Fair is fair, right?
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