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dbucfan

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« #15 : September 15, 2009, 05:55:42 PM »

A generation or three has heard this from 'experts' since Dr. Spock.  Been watching kids lately?

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

GhostRider

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« #16 : September 15, 2009, 06:01:46 PM »

Spanking at any age at best is no deterrent against future behavior, at worst actually increases negative behavior in later life.

Spanking is the lazy parent's way out...

Got kids?

Yep.  2.  Ages 15 and 5.  Both raised in a non-spank household.  The oldest is an A student (at the moment, lol) who's always had steller behavior at school.  Has she gotten in trouble, sure.  But we've found that the reward/take away method works REALLY well, especially when they get to be teens. 

The little one has my temper.  So when she starts screaming hitting and throwing a fit, we pick her up, and set her down in a chair on the back porch.  She's allowed back in only when she's calm and civil.  What at first took 30+mins, now takes about 2 or 3.  She calms down, chills out, then we discuss the situation and re-inforce the rules.  Sure it takes a hell of a lot more time and effort, but hey, I chose to have kids.  I refuse to cop out by hitting them.


O.S. Buc76

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« #17 : September 15, 2009, 06:10:56 PM »

Spanking at any age at best is no deterrent against future behavior, at worst actually increases negative behavior in later life.

Spanking is the lazy parent's way out...
You never met my Dad. Called my Mom a dog, got a good spanking, never called her a dog again. Stole ten bucks from his wallet, good a good spanking, never stole from him again. Skipped school one day, good a real good spanking, never skipped school again.

Couldn't ask for a better father. There wasn't a lazy thing about him, especially his parenting. To this day I am respectful, honest and dedicated and I have him to thank for helping towards these characteristics.

It is all in how it's done and followed up on.

Excellent post Kev!


BucsGuru

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« #18 : September 15, 2009, 06:12:33 PM »

I spank my kids, and I was spanked; it's all in how it is done IMO.

escobar

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« #19 : September 15, 2009, 06:20:44 PM »

Spanking at any age at best is no deterrent against future behavior, at worst actually increases negative behavior in later life.

Spanking is the lazy parent's way out...


You have the wrong opinion on pretty much everything.

dbucfan

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« #20 : September 15, 2009, 06:23:03 PM »

Mojo - whatever works for your kids it the answer.  Raising their kids to be good people is job 1-5 of every parent.  Keep after it your own way - and good luck - sincerely - to all parents good luck.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

Ironphist

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« #21 : September 15, 2009, 06:25:19 PM »

spare the rod, spoil the child...  what's wrong with having aggressive children?  take a poll of your favorite ALL STAR roster of pro football players - you'll probably be hard pressed to find one that didn't have a strict disciplinarian parental influence...  this touchy, feely, "if you do this you lose that", tit-for-tat mentality may raise a child that doesn't get into trouble, but doesn't raise a disciplined child (obviously some kids are self-disciplined just because they are driven internally, but that's probably the exception rather than the rule)...

dalbuc

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« #22 : September 15, 2009, 06:27:48 PM »

The problem with this sort of study is this:

"Berlin and her colleagues looked at data on 2,500 white, Mexican American and black children from low-income families. The data included parents' reports about their children's behavior, their use of spanking, as well as home visits by trained observers to document parent-child interactions at ages 1, 2 and 3."

So our "data" is based on such fun factors as:

1. Parents reports.
2. Home visits by trained (but never biased) observers.

All of which we call subjective and therefore utterly worthless.

Social science <> science, not even in the same neighborhood.

...and no, I don't spank my kid and I was never spanked as a kid so I've got no dog in this fight other than hating bad research.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

BUCFAN4LIFE

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« #23 : September 15, 2009, 06:29:13 PM »

Spanking at any age at best is no deterrent against future behavior, at worst actually increases negative behavior in later life.

Spanking is the lazy parent's way out...

Got kids?

Yep. 2. Ages 15 and 5. Both raised in a non-spank household. The oldest is an A student (at the moment, lol) who's always had steller behavior at school. Has she gotten in trouble, sure. But we've found that the reward/take away method works REALLY well, especially when they get to be teens.

The little one has my temper. So when she starts screaming hitting and throwing a fit, we pick her up, and set her down in a chair on the back porch. She's allowed back in only when she's calm and civil. What at first took 30+mins, now takes about 2 or 3. She calms down, chills out, then we discuss the situation and re-inforce the rules. Sure it takes a hell of a lot more time and effort, but hey, I chose to have kids. I refuse to cop out by hitting them.

Good for you- lets hope the timeout chair keeps working...I have 2 boys that I rarely have ever had to spank, but when they have deserved it they have gotten it. Both are straight A students. Both are in honors courses. The oldest has already earned college credit. The oldest is one of the tops on his Soccer club, while the other is a great little baseball player. Both love sports, love school, have alot of friends. Are very respectful of adults. They both misbehave like any other kid but for the most part are well mannered, well rounded, good boys who respect their parents, adults, their teachers , and authority.

I was spanked and much worse than I have ever spanked. And I never ever got a spanking I did  not deserve. I deserved every one of them. I know damn well my parents loved me every bit of the way too.

I am married - raising two great kids, work in a great profession. Have two college degrees and a Masters. Married to  beautiful girl who was spanked as well who is also a professional with her Masters. We have both been very successful, law abiding, tax paying citizens, who are raising good boys.

For you to imply some how parents who spank are lazy---- is retarded. Are you seriously going to blanket an entire population? If so lets hope your girls don't inherit your intellectual prowess-- every child deserves better than that.


John Galt?

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« #24 : September 15, 2009, 06:51:32 PM »

I am pro spanking



In CERTAIN situations


cheveliar

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« #25 : September 15, 2009, 07:04:03 PM »

spare the rod, spoil the child...  what's wrong with having aggressive children?  take a poll of your favorite ALL STAR roster of pro football players - you'll probably be hard pressed to find one that didn't have a strict disciplinarian parental influence...  this touchy, feely, "if you do this you lose that", tit-for-tat mentality may raise a child that doesn't get into trouble, but doesn't raise a disciplined child (obviously some kids are self-disciplined just because they are driven internally, but that's probably the exception rather than the rule)...

Nuf said...

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


cyberdude557

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« #26 : September 15, 2009, 07:09:17 PM »

The problem with this sort of study is this:

"Berlin and her colleagues looked at data on 2,500 white, Mexican American and black children from low-income families. The data included parents' reports about their children's behavior, their use of spanking, as well as home visits by trained observers to document parent-child interactions at ages 1, 2 and 3."

So our "data" is based on such fun factors as:

1. Parents reports.
2. Home visits by trained (but never biased) observers.

All of which we call subjective and therefore utterly worthless.

Social science <> science, not even in the same neighborhood.

...and no, I don't spank my kid and I was never spanked as a kid so I've got no dog in this fight other than hating bad research.

However there is lots of studies that do show spankings do not change the behavior.

When people defend spanking they always say "looking back when I was a kid...." which is a very unscientific and biased opinion. Also your opinion is different now than it was when a child. Today you are an adult and when you look back at your behavior 20-30 years ago you may understand now why that behavior is wrong. But do you remember your perception and frame of mind as a child at that time? Probably not. Our minds don't hold on to that kind of information for very long. Especially when you were 8 or 9 years old...your brain has changed massively since then.

Studies consistantly show that a more successful behavior modification tool is positive reinforcement. In other words praise or reward serves as a much more effective and less harmful motivator to continue a good behavior than a punishment has to prevent or stop a bad behavior.
Positive reinforcers can be something like allowance increases, more time on the phone or computer, or something along those lines. In other words there is a constant positive reinforcer in place that rewards the good behavior. When bad behavior occurs, you remove the positive reinforcement. The child will then modify his or her behavior in order to get the reward back.

And this isnt just one study that shows spanking is bad...

This study here did a meta-analysis of spanking studies. This is when they took a bunch of studies and rated them and combined results. 93% of the studies found that spanking results in a negative effect...
A meta-analysis of spanking studies found 93 percent agreement among studies that spanking can lead to such problems as delinquent and anti-social behavior in childhood along with aggression, criminal and anti-social behavior and spousal or child abuse as an adult.
http://psychcentral.com/news/2008/02/29/spanking-raises-risk-of-later-sexual-problems/1990.html

JavaBuc

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« #27 : September 15, 2009, 07:36:52 PM »

Aqib Talib must have had his butt spanked raw when he was a kid.

kevabuc

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« #28 : September 15, 2009, 07:39:18 PM »

I am pro spanking



In CERTAIN situations
Like at Castle Anthrax?


\"The budget should be balanced; the treasury should be refilled; public debt should be reduced; and the arrogance of public officials should be controlled.\" -Cicero. 106-43 B.C.

dalbuc

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« #29 : September 15, 2009, 07:56:26 PM »

This study here did a meta-analysis of spanking studies. This is when they took a bunch of studies and rated them and combined results. 93% of the studies found that spanking results in a negative effect...
A meta-analysis of spanking studies found 93 percent agreement among studies that spanking can lead to such problems as delinquent and anti-social behavior in childhood along with aggression, criminal and anti-social behavior and spousal or child abuse as an adult.
http://psychcentral.com/news/2008/02/29/spanking-raises-risk-of-later-sexual-problems/1990.html

GIGO applies here. You do a meta-analysis of junk then the junk results are no shock. sorry, I've read plenty of studies on aggression and almost all of them are based around either metrics with no meaning or else subjective evaluations.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
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