Draft Franchise LT Joe Thomas

[cheveliar]

Chev - UW plays ARK in the Who Gives a Damn Bowl on January 1.

ROFLMBAO!!!  Not bad. Thanks Dal.  The disadvantage is I don't get to judge his body of work.  But I like the one game scenario.  Gives me a feel for what he's like on the national stage.  Plus the hogs have talent so it's not a schmuck team or the little sisters of the blind...

[CeriousBuc]

Statistically, you are right.  However, to me the priority has to be the defense.  I'm not sure how the offseason will shake out.  If we can get Joe and get a stud in the FA market on the dline then we can all jump and shout.  I don't care how we do it to be honest.  I'm not a personell guy nor a very good GM type.  All I know is selecting Joe at number one doesn't fix our problems, not even the immediate ones on offense.  I know how you guys like to denigrate my oline.  And to your credit most of the condemnation is deserved, but it's certainly not all their fault as some would like to assert.  Now you have another rook on a line full of youngsters already.  I don't know Joe or know of his exploits.  I depend on you draft gurus for that.  If he's the end all to be all and based on your analysis of first round LOT's then I guess he's the pick.  But we need more than Joe to right this ship...We need an equally talented bad azz on the dline to to make this offseason somewhat of a success...IMO

Again Chev, no knock on you boys, but you just can't pass on a Franchise LT, especially if you don't one on your roster. With the injury to Beunning and no specific timetable as to when he'll be back in TOP shape (knee injuries take time even after the player has done the rehab, part ofthe recovery is mental), I'd like to see Davis moved inside. I think Davis is better suited to block inside a phonebooth on a consistent basis. We already know about his agility, so I think he could pull without problem, but I would like to see him add a few pounds back to his frame and get back to dominating in the run blocking dept. Lne him up next to a Franchise LT and the left side gets back to business again.

Maybe you didn't read my post well.  I'm not opposed to picking the "franchise" player.  I'm opposed to the mindset that he is the most urgent need.  I totally disagree with that thought process.  Like I stated, we can pick Joe number one.  I still don't agree with moving AD inside either.  But that's a different discussion.  However, it is our defense that has been neglected for years and it is our defense that is failing us.  Our offense has never been good in Tampa.  So telling me that our O is 30th in the league and our D is 19th is no shocker at this point when you realize that other than Ruud we haven't picked a defensive player in the first 60 picks since Booger, who's gone if you didn't notice.  Not a huge loss by any stretch as Jovan Haye and Jon Bradley has filled in admirably to get us to 19th on defense.

Yeah that's a redeeming stat after 10 years of dominance...NOT!!!

I didn't say OT the most urgent need. If you want to go with most urgent need you could easily say QB. We're talking about the excelling value of a Top 5 pick, and IMO Joe Thomas and Gaines Adams rank equally. I don't think we could go wrong either way.

[dalbuc]

Chev - UW plays ARK in the Who Gives a Damn Bowl on January 1.

[cheveliar]

Statistically, you are right. However, to me the priority has to be the defense. I'm not sure how the offseason will shake out. If we can get Joe and get a stud in the FA market on the dline then we can all jump and shout. I don't care how we do it to be honest. I'm not a personell guy nor a very good GM type. All I know is selecting Joe at number one doesn't fix our problems, not even the immediate ones on offense. I know how you guys like to denigrate my oline. And to your credit most of the condemnation is deserved, but it's certainly not all their fault as some would like to assert. Now you have another rook on a line full of youngsters already. I don't know Joe or know of his exploits. I depend on you draft gurus for that. If he's the end all to be all and based on your analysis of first round LOT's then I guess he's the pick. But we need more than Joe to right this ship...We need an equally talented bad azz on the dline to to make this offseason somewhat of a success...IMO

Again Chev, no knock on you boys, but you just can't pass on a Franchise LT, especially if you don't one on your roster. With the injury to Beunning and no specific timetable as to when he'll be back in TOP shape (knee injuries take time even after the player has done the rehab, part ofthe recovery is mental), I'd like to see Davis moved inside. I think Davis is better suited to block inside a phonebooth on a consistent basis. We already know about his agility, so I think he could pull without problem, but I would like to see him add a few pounds back to his frame and get back to dominating in the run blocking dept. Lne him up next to a Franchise LT and the left side gets back to business again.

Maybe you didn't read my post well. I'm not opposed to picking the "franchise" player. I'm opposed to the mindset that he is the most urgent need. I totally disagree with that thought process. Like I stated, we can pick Joe number one. I still don't agree with moving AD inside either. But that's a different discussion. However, it is our defense that has been neglected for years and it is our defense that is failing us. Our offense has never been good in Tampa. So telling me that our O is 30th in the league and our D is 19th is no shocker at this point when you realize that other than Ruud we haven't picked a defensive player in the first 60 picks since Booger, who's gone if you didn't notice. Not a huge loss by any stretch as Jovan Haye and Jon Bradley has filled in admirably to get us to 19th on defense.

Yeah that's a redeeming stat after 10 years of dominance...NOT!!!

I didn't say OT the most urgent need. If you want to go with most urgent need you could easily say QB. We're talking about the excelling value of a Top 5 pick, and IMO Joe Thomas and Gaines Adams rank equally. I don't think we could go wrong either way.

Like I said I'm not a draft guy.  While I like to know who the best guys are.  I usually get that from you guys and then watch whatever college games I have on DVD and focus on the player to get a feel for who you guys are talking about.  I've seen Adams play a couple of times and he has talent.  Would love to see Joe play this year.  Who are they playing in a Bowl game this year so I can make a note to capture that for reference come draft time....

Also, if you ask me both side of the ball have been neglected for years. Poor drafting, trading away pick and drafting defense heavy 95-99 have come back to haunt this team. I addressed it in another thread, but we drafted DL heavy in 95-99 to the detriment of the offense, we wasted pick on very bad players and then we traded pick away for players and a coach. NOt until the last 3 years can we say that the team has added any premeir talent to the offensive side of the ball since 1995.

Right.  I agree.  We're living with the consequences of our past success, and things are turning around, but we have to find a way to fill some wholes on both sides of the ball with this draft.

We need (IMO, in more or less this order): DT, DE, WR, OT, S, CB.

That's why I'm hoping we can trade down for an extra 2nd rounder and pick up a couple of FAs in key positions...

[CeriousBuc]

Also, if you ask me both side of the ball have been neglected for years. Poor drafting, trading away pick and drafting defense heavy 95-99 have come back to haunt this team. I addressed it in another thread, but we drafted DL heavy in 95-99 to the detriment of the offense, we wasted pick on very bad players and then we traded pick away for players and a coach. NOt until the last 3 years can we say that the team has added any premeir talent to the offensive side of the ball since 1995.

Right. I agree. We're living with the consequences of our past success, and things are turning around, but we have to find a way to fill some wholes on both sides of the ball with this draft.

We need (IMO, in more or less this order): DT, DE, WR, OT, S, CB.

That's why I'm hoping we can trade down for an extra 2nd rounder and pick up a couple of FAs in key positions...

No argument here. We need to take a balance approach from here on out. Obviously, the defense has holes but so does the offense. We have to draft players that will make an impact on the team regardless of what side of the ball they play. The FA Market will be loaded with defensive talent this year and I'm hoping we land at least two defenders and possibly a WR. The draft should go to drafting players to strenghten our trenches (DL/OL) and special teams.

[CeriousBuc]

Also, if you ask me both side of the ball have been neglected for years. Poor drafting, trading away pick and drafting defense heavy 95-99 have come back to haunt this team. I addressed it in another thread, but we drafted DL heavy in 95-99 to the detriment of the offense, we wasted pick on very bad players and then we traded pick away for players and a coach. NOt until the last 3 years can we say that the team has added any premeir talent to the offensive side of the ball since 1995.

Maybe you didn't read my post well.  I'm not opposed to picking the "franchise" player.  I'm opposed to the mindset that he is the most urgent need.  I totally disagree with that thought process.  Like I stated, we can pick Joe number one.  I still don't agree with moving AD inside either.  But that's a different discussion.  However, it is our defense that has been neglected for years and it is our defense that is failing us.  Our offense has never been good in Tampa.  So telling me that our O is 30th in the league and our D is 19th is no shocker at this point when you realize that other than Ruud we haven't picked a defensive player in the first 60 picks since Booger, who's gone if you didn't notice.  Not a huge loss by any stretch as Jovan Haye and Jon Bradley has filled in admirably to get us to 19th on defense.

Yeah that's a redeeming stat after 10 years of dominance...NOT!!!

I think that part of the assumption has to be that the Offense is young and WILL improve.  We still need a WR and possibly a T, though.  I wouldn't be against putting AD inside, considering that Buenning may be out until next Nov.

Point is, though, that we do need to focus on D.  I agree.  I'm thinking maybe trade down a bit and try to get the first DT off the board and an extra 2nd round pick.  Maybe then, in the second round, we can get a WR, a DE and either a DB or OL or that FB, depending on how things are unfolding.  Then pick whatever else we can get the rest of the way.

[CeriousBuc]

ut, this is the same Gruden that drafted Davin Joseph when both Chad Jackson and Santonio Holmes were available and we were said to be considering Manny Lawson before the 49ers took him one pick ahead us. Gruden isn't focused on the offense only, if Gaines Adams is there he'll draft him in a heartbeat because you don't find players in the mold of Juluis Peppers in the 2-3 rounds.

Gines Adams is no Peppers truse me....Peppers is a like a Javon Kearse "a freak" Gaines adams is nore of a Simen Rice

Note the phrase "in the mold of," no he isn't as good as Peppers but Adams is stout against the run much moreso than Simeon. In that way he is in the mold of Peppers, just like Mario Williams. Neither is a freak like Peppers, but they fit the mold of an every down DE with few weaknesses.

[cheveliar]

Statistically, you are right.  However, to me the priority has to be the defense.  I'm not sure how the offseason will shake out.  If we can get Joe and get a stud in the FA market on the dline then we can all jump and shout.  I don't care how we do it to be honest.  I'm not a personell guy nor a very good GM type.  All I know is selecting Joe at number one doesn't fix our problems, not even the immediate ones on offense.  I know how you guys like to denigrate my oline.  And to your credit most of the condemnation is deserved, but it's certainly not all their fault as some would like to assert.  Now you have another rook on a line full of youngsters already.  I don't know Joe or know of his exploits.  I depend on you draft gurus for that.  If he's the end all to be all and based on your analysis of first round LOT's then I guess he's the pick.  But we need more than Joe to right this ship...We need an equally talented bad azz on the dline to to make this offseason somewhat of a success...IMO

Again Chev, no knock on you boys, but you just can't pass on a Franchise LT, especially if you don't one on your roster. With the injury to Beunning and no specific timetable as to when he'll be back in TOP shape (knee injuries take time even after the player has done the rehab, part ofthe recovery is mental), I'd like to see Davis moved inside. I think Davis is better suited to block inside a phonebooth on a consistent basis. We already know about his agility, so I think he could pull without problem, but I would like to see him add a few pounds back to his frame and get back to dominating in the run blocking dept. Lne him up next to a Franchise LT and the left side gets back to business again.

Maybe you didn't read my post well.  I'm not opposed to picking the "franchise" player.  I'm opposed to the mindset that he is the most urgent need.  I totally disagree with that thought process.  Like I stated, we can pick Joe number one.  I still don't agree with moving AD inside either.  But that's a different discussion.  However, it is our defense that has been neglected for years and it is our defense that is failing us.  Our offense has never been good in Tampa.  So telling me that our O is 30th in the league and our D is 19th is no shocker at this point when you realize that other than Ruud we haven't picked a defensive player in the first 60 picks since Booger, who's gone if you didn't notice.  Not a huge loss by any stretch as Jovan Haye and Jon Bradley has filled in admirably to get us to 19th on defense.

Yeah that's a redeeming stat after 10 years of dominance...NOT!!!

We will regret passing on a talent like Calvin Johnson...he is the Reggie Bush/Randy Moss of this draft

[CeriousBuc]

We might.

But what good would CJ be if we don't have time to get the ball to him?

ut, this is the same Gruden that drafted Davin Joseph when both Chad Jackson and Santonio Holmes were available and we were said to be considering Manny Lawson before the 49ers took him one pick ahead us. Gruden isn't focused on the offense only, if Gaines Adams is there he'll draft him in a heartbeat because you don't find players in the mold of Juluis Peppers in the 2-3 rounds.

Gaines Adams is no Peppers truse me....Peppers is a like a Javon Kearse "a freak" Gaines adams is more of a Rice speed rusher but horrible run stopper

However retain White and draft a Victor Albimari #2 that would be great.  Pair that with Johnson #2 and Reggie Nelson with your second second round pick would be a huge step

[CeriousBuc]

Statistically, you are right.  However, to me the priority has to be the defense.  I'm not sure how the offseason will shake out.  If we can get Joe and get a stud in the FA market on the dline then we can all jump and shout.  I don't care how we do it to be honest.  I'm not a personell guy nor a very good GM type.  All I know is selecting Joe at number one doesn't fix our problems, not even the immediate ones on offense.  I know how you guys like to denigrate my oline.  And to your credit most of the condemnation is deserved, but it's certainly not all their fault as some would like to assert.  Now you have another rook on a line full of youngsters already.  I don't know Joe or know of his exploits.  I depend on you draft gurus for that.  If he's the end all to be all and based on your analysis of first round LOT's then I guess he's the pick.  But we need more than Joe to right this ship...We need an equally talented bad azz on the dline to to make this offseason somewhat of a success...IMO

Again Chev, no knock on you boys, but you just can't pass on a Franchise LT, especially if you don't one on your roster. With the injury to Beunning and no specific timetable as to when he'll be back in TOP shape (knee injuries take time even after the player has done the rehab, part ofthe recovery is mental), I'd like to see Davis moved inside. I think Davis is better suited to block inside a phonebooth on a consistent basis. We already know about his agility, so I think he could pull without problem, but I would like to see him add a few pounds back to his frame and get back to dominating in the run blocking dept. Lne him up next to a Franchise LT and the left side gets back to business again.

ut, this is the same Gruden that drafted Davin Joseph when both Chad Jackson and Santonio Holmes were available and we were said to be considering Manny Lawson before the 49ers took him one pick ahead us. Gruden isn't focused on the offense only, if Gaines Adams is there he'll draft him in a heartbeat because you don't find players in the mold of Juluis Peppers in the 2-3 rounds.

Gines Adams is no Peppers truse me....Peppers is a like a Javon Kearse "a freak" Gaines adams is nore of a Simen Rice