lol what if johnson pans out, and gruden actully did give us our franchise QB?

[Mean D]

The Bucs were 9-7 last year under Gruden.  Radio comes in, cuts a number of veterans and brings in his own "talent" (Leftwich, Winslow, Ward, etc.), then gets his own draft, AND gets to start the season with a healthy Cadillac and Graham.  Gruden haters laud Radio for assembling such a talented team.  But when these Bucs actually take the field they play worse than any Bucs team in decades - and what do the Gruden haters now say when it is abundantly clear that Radio is no head coach?  OF COURSE!  IT"S GRUDEN"S FAULT!  Unbelievable.

[Detrimental]

That's the LEAST he could have done. All those damn sorry ass draft picks we took.

[Biggs3535]

I got into a very heated conversion yesterday with a Gruden apologist that is "positive" that if Gruden was here, JJ would be the qb. "Gruden was grooming him" is what i was told. What B-S.

I'm of the opinion that he would've been in full save his azz mode by bringing in another old guy. I could be wrong, but thats how i feel.

I agree.

There is no reason to NOT think Brian Griese would have been the starting QB for Bucs this season with Gruden still here.

[Feel Real Good]

wouldnt we have to say that allen gave us our franchise QB? 

Even if Johnson never amounts to anything, we can thank Allen for preventing Gruden from drafting Brady Quinn and Brian Brohm.

lol i know this team is married to freeman, but it would make for a nice QB controversey.

Didn't read the thread ... but I think Java would return to being "JavaBuc"...   for better or for worse.... LOL

JMHO

Yes but you know a large chunk of JJ love here is based on the "he's Gruden's guy" theory and now with the "he was the future under Gruden" myth being spun this is just another sad weapon for the Gruden fans to try and claim he shouldn't have been fired.

Hmm... Well, I don't know any such thing. In fact, it sounds like crap to me. Have you got anything to support this or is it just hyperbole that you're trying to present as fact?

[Boid Fink]

[DanTurksGhost]

I got into a very heated conversion yesterday with a Gruden apologist that is "positive" that if Gruden was here, JJ would be the qb. "Gruden was grooming him" is what i was told.

He was not. If he was, he was doing it in secret.

[Hate]

I got into a very heated conversion yesterday with a Gruden apologist that is "positive" that if Gruden was here, JJ would be the qb. "Gruden was grooming him" is what i was told.

He was not. If he was, he was doing it in secret.

Agreed.

I saw Lombardi on NFLN a few weeks back when he made that proclamation. The apologists ate it right up. I go by what i see and history tells us it woulda been more of the same. Another patch job @ qb.

[LFO]

Yes but you know a large chunk of JJ love here is based on the "he's Gruden's guy" theory and now with the "he was the future under Gruden" myth being spun this is just another sad weapon for the Gruden fans to try and claim he shouldn't have been fired.

I too am very anxious to see what JJ brings to the table but it has zero to do with Chucky. I can vouch for what you're saying though. I got into a very heated conversion yesterday with a Gruden apologist that is "positive" that if Gruden was here, JJ would be the qb. "Gruden was grooming him" is what i was told. What B-S.

I'm of the opinion that he would've been in full save his azz mode by bringing in another old guy. I could be wrong, but thats how i feel.

JJ was the future for Gruden.  I know that for a fact.  

This comes from someone close to Gruden.  I would bet my life on that.  

[GameTime]

personally, i bet gruden thought JJ was the future.  but i also see gruden having trust issues and bringing in another crusty vet whom he feels more comfortable.

[LFO]

personally, i bet gruden thought JJ was the future.  but i also see gruden having trust issues and bringing in another crusty vet whom he feels more comfortable.

That depends on the pressure from the ownership to win.

[Biggs3535]

Ownership is obviously willing to rebuild, that's why we are seeing what we are seeing.

[LFO]

Ownership is obviously willing to rebuild, that's why we are seeing what we are seeing.

Fair enough.  Obviously they are, or they wouldn't have hired Raheem.
'
That being said, the expectations for Gruden were a bit different.  I think he was expected to win, and win now.  Raheem is given a different rope. 

[Boid Fink]

Ownership is obviously willing to rebuild, that's why we are seeing what we are seeing.

Fair enough. Obviously they are, or they wouldn't have hired Raheem.
'
That being said, the expectations for Gruden were a bit different. I think he was expected to win, and win now. Raheem is given a different rope.

And to me, that is pathetic.