This day was coming for sure.

[Capt_Chaos]

Don't get it twisted guys, this crappy start to the season is 100% on the current coaching staff.

The poor play is on the current coaching staff, but it's hard to say the record would be much different no matter who the coach was. At best Gruden would be 1-2 right now while having more "competitive" losses to Dallas and the Giants.

very true, but I do believe we win the Dallas game with Gruden and only lose by 10 to Giants, with a victory in Buffalo.

[MBF]

Gruden and Allen planted their own set of land mines much like McKay and Dungy did, and those are going to be going off and blowing up in our faces for a few years unfortuneatly resulting in losing seasons.

Our current draft class isn't looking too hot, only Roy Miller and Sammie Stroughter look like contributing this season. That's pitiful when you consider we're rebuilding and should be getting something from the young guns.

Which other draftees ought to be contributing? The ones that are injured?

Don't even try that, if Gruden had drafted a guy who then got injured (not named Caddy) he'd be getting a lot of heat for it.

Gruden and Allen planted their own set of land mines much like McKay and Dungy did, and those are going to be going off and blowing up in our faces for a few years unfortuneatly resulting in losing seasons.

Our current draft class isn't looking too hot, only Roy Miller and Sammie Stroughter look like contributing this season. That's pitiful when you consider we're rebuilding and should be getting something from the young guns.

Yeah but just like when the president takes over or maybe a new CEO of any company, you unfortuneatly have to spend the first year or two just cleaning up the turds that the previous person left behind, while trying to put your own plans and solutions in motion.

Yes, but our defense has looked absolutely atrocious most of the time which I'm told Gruden had no control over.

[dbucfan]

Gruden and Allen planted their own set of land mines much like McKay and Dungy did, and those are going to be going off and blowing up in our faces for a few years unfortuneatly resulting in losing seasons.

Our current draft class isn't looking too hot, only Roy Miller and Sammie Stroughter look like contributing this season. That's pitiful when you consider we're rebuilding and should be getting something from the young guns.

Which other draftees ought to be contributing? The ones that are injured?

I don't know - maybe ask about Caddy in the same vein.

[MBF]

Don't get it twisted guys, this crappy start to the season is 100% on the current coaching staff.

The poor play is on the current coaching staff, but it's hard to say the record would be much different no matter who the coach was. At best Gruden would be 1-2 right now while having more "competitive" losses to Dallas and the Giants.

Possibly, but I'm of the belief that the roster would look quite different if Gruden was still at the helm so it's impossible to say. I think Gruden would have given us a better chance of success this season but 2010 would've been another patch up job.

[BUCINRIGHT]

We were ALWAYS competitive under Gruden.  yes we went 5-11 and 4-12 but we could have won any of those games if a few things bounced our way.  We would lose by 3-7 points but teams knew we could have won just as easily.  The Vikings could have lost yesterday, but the pass at the end of the game went their way and the Broncos could have lost there first game but stokley caught that miracle tip and ran it in.  There is a huge difference between getting destroyed in all 3 phases of the game and losing or being one play away and losing.  Yes a loss is still a loss, but at least the team fought til the end because they knew they had a chance. We are not in the parity land of the NFL where anyone can win, I think we are in loser land right now with the Browns, Raiders, and Rams. Hopefully things turn around.

[GhostRider]

Even at 4-12 or 5-11, under Gruden, the Bucs were still taken seriously by their opponents.  Hell, not only are we not taken seriously, other teams ACTUALLY FEEL SORRY FOR US.

[O.S. Buc76]

Other than the SuperBowl year I am starting to think that most of Gruden's tenure here was a mirage or smoke & mirrors, and it showed with us not winning another playoff game after that SB year.

[JM2]

Other than the SuperBowl year I am starting to think that most of Gruden's tenure here was a mirage or smoke & mirrors, and it showed with us not winning another playoff game after that SB year.

This.

Personally I am not satisfied with mediocrity. Gruden hadn't won a playoff game since the 2002 season. How is that really better then what we have now? If we have to go through the pain that is the Raheem era, if that is what is necessary to eventually lead us to be a contender again, then so be it. (Albeit it will probably be under a different coaching staff and FO.)

[Larry Brackins]

Not really. If Gruden were still here, this team would still be competitive. And could be rebuilt to a superbowl power in a couple of years. The way it is, they will be the worst team in the league now for years unless they bring in a new coach.

No.

This team may have been competitve if Gruden was still here but it was never going to be rebuilt into a super bowl power. We'd be around 9-7, 10-6 and a first round exit ever year. Then throw in a few 5-11 seasons and you have the Gruden post super bowl tenure.

[Badabing]

Not really. If Gruden were still here, this team would still be competitive. And could be rebuilt to a superbowl power in a couple of years. The way it is, they will be the worst team in the league now for years unless they bring in a new coach.

No.

This team may have been competitve if Gruden was still here but it was never going to be rebuilt into a super bowl power. We'd be around 9-7, 10-6 and a first round exit ever year. Then throw in a few 5-11 seasons and you have the Gruden post super bowl tenure.

Aside from the Steelers and Patriots, what other team was built to a Super Bowl power?

The Colts have Peyton Manning and without him they are garbage, so don’t include them in the conversation, as getting a guy like him happens extremely rarely.  Other teams that do a good job drafting and are competitive nearly every year are the Ravens, Eagles, and Chargers.  Yet, none of them have won a Super Bowl the past few years.  The Ravens won in 2000 and the Eagles never have won one.

The Giants have been good the past few years, but even the year they won the Super Bowl they were 10-6.  The Cardinals made the Super Bowl last year at 9-7, only after defeating the 9 win Eagles in the NFC Championship game.

Bottom Line:  Not many teams are Super Bowl powers.  The Steelers and Patriots are the only ones I could think of, and neither of them look all that impressive this year.  Secondly, as long as you make the playoffs, you have a chance. 

You(not just you but many) are delusional if you think the Bucs will be a Super Bowl power within YOUR lifetime, considering the fact that we have the lowest payroll in the NFL and do a subpar job drafting.  Maybe the new regime can change things, but if you have limited resources and a horribly inexperienced coach/GM, don’t expect this regime to turn the Bucs into a Super Bowl power.  They are going to wish to be that playoff pretender that Gruden had the Bucs at.

[s0uthFLbucfan]

Not really. If Gruden were still here, this team would still be competitive. And could be rebuilt to a superbowl power in a couple of years. The way it is, they will be the worst team in the league now for years unless they bring in a new coach.

No.

This team may have been competitve if Gruden was still here but it was never going to be rebuilt into a super bowl power. We'd be around 9-7, 10-6 and a first round exit ever year. Then throw in a few 5-11 seasons and you have the Gruden post super bowl tenure.

i agree. gruden was never going to win a superbowl again. esp without monte. Gruden cant build a team, either that or he takes too long.

7 years and all we get is an good o-line?

gruden had more than enough time. and monte's defenses won games. In both our first round home exits, the offense was terrible. gruden had his time, and already had a team mostly built in his hands. He did nothing but bring in vets who got the job done to win the superbowl(i will forever be thankful for that) but he never laid a foundation of any kind.

look at the titans with fischer.
couglin's giants.
reid's eagles.

these guys know how to bulid teams.

build teams /= winning with a already great team.

i am will always be thankful for gruden, and admit he does have a lot of offensive brain, but he was never going to take us deep into the playoffs.

are we better off with rah? only time will tell. give him a season before you judge him

[dbucfan]

Scouting departments and GMs build teams.  HCs have input.

[O.S. Buc76]

We were on our way back down with Gruden - not up, and yes we stink right now but at least we don't have to endure Gruden's constant bull crap and rotating 40 year old QB's as a temporary fix year after year.

[bradentonian]

Scouting departments and GMs build teams.  HCs have input.

But not all HCs get to hand-pick their GMs