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: October 05, 2009, 07:17:50 AM

When the decision was made to fire Gruden and go to a youth movement, I'd say 90% of the visitors to this board were ecstatic.

Now, for both Gruden AND the organization, it was time for a change.  Jon's hands were tied by both ownership. as well as the guy that was always referred to as Jon's "puppet", Bruce Allen.

I asked the question many times during all of the "Fire Gruden/Allen" threads that kept popping up, which was, "If the Bucs make the move to terminate Gruden, are you ready for the losing ways that go along with re-building?"  I got very few responses one way or the other on the question, but it is plain to see that the answer is a resounding "No!!"

Sure, other teams are doing well with their HC changes, ala Denver and the Jets, and the Falcons of 2008, to name a few.  They are exceptions to the fact that more often than not, the growing pains are lengthy, ala the Bucs.

Was Raheem Morris the right choice in the aforementioned change?  I'm going to give the guy more than 4 games in before passing judgement.  It would be largely unfair to do otherwise.

Just remember this---MANY of YOU asked for the change, so deal with the losing that usually goes along with it and quit the whining.  Don't be the 'wagon fan that is only a fan during the good times.  The absolute REAL fan will roll with the team ALL the time....good or bad.

And ALWAYS remember....YOU asked for it, YOU got it.  Next time, be careful what you wish for.

TheShadow

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#1 : October 05, 2009, 07:41:52 AM

The grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence but it still grows over there too. I wasn't the biggest fan of the move but it's done now and we all have to pay for it and go on. There is no other choice.

Quit beefing about the past and start hoping for the future

dalbuc

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#2 : October 05, 2009, 08:20:52 AM

The problem is that most the the "change" was going to happen one way or another - Brooks, Garcia, Galloway and company were all going to be gone.  We weren't going to to do much better in FA than Ward and Winslow. The roster you see before you was going to be the roster of Morris or Gruden -- problem is this crap roster is his fault. 

Gruden has already proven he's not a miracle worker with offensive talent. When his talent drops he drop with it as a coach - heck he drops below it as a coach. The offense wasn't going to be better than it was this year thus far with Chucky and there's nada in his history to make you think it would be.

The defense wasn't going to be led by Monte. We already saw the effect of that and things haven't gotten any better - funny how Morris would have to be the guy to save Gruden in this scenario since he was the DC.

I don't know that Morris was the right hire but looking at what we've got Gruden surely wasn't gonna make this any better.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.



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#3 : October 05, 2009, 08:29:14 AM

Never said it was gonna be better one way or other.  And the talent assembled cannot be pinned solely on Gruden, regardless of what people want to belive or not believe.

Besides, my point remains the same.  To read some of the jargon posted when Gruden was still here was that someone, anyone, could and would have been better.  That's not the case.  Furthermore, players can't play forever, ala Brooks, Sapp, Lynch, etc.  And some folks have difficulty grasping that.

To pin the last 3-4 seasons entirely on Gruden is as unfair as it is to prejudge Morris.  The entire organization, starting with the Glazer boys is equally to blame for the current situation.

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#4 : October 05, 2009, 08:33:47 AM

Never said it was gonna be better one way or other. And the talent assembled cannot be pinned solely on Gruden, regardless of what people want to belive or not believe.

Besides, my point remains the same. To read some of the jargon posted when Gruden was still here was that someone, anyone, could and would have been better. That's not the case. Furthermore, players can't play forever, ala Brooks, Sapp, Lynch, etc. And some folks have difficulty grasping that.

To pin the last 3-4 seasons entirely on Gruden is as unfair as it is to prejudge Morris. The entire organization, starting with the Glazer boys is equally to blame for the current situation.


And that's the truth...


Quit beefing about the past and start hoping for the future

dalbuc

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#5 : October 05, 2009, 08:34:07 AM


To pin the last 3-4 seasons entirely on Gruden is as unfair as it is to prejudge Morris.  The entire organization, starting with the Glazer boys is equally to blame for the current situation.


Again, being 0-4 is a Morris' problem, the last 3-4 years are Gruden's problem. His team, his total failure and the current roster gives you a big idea of how nowheresville this thing was. He might have patched us and band-aided us to 8-8 but the pointless spinning of the wheels isn't progress. Morris might not be the guy but the leadership decapitation was a necessary step before we move forward.

Gruden might wind up winning another SB in SD next year, for example, but he wasn't ever going to lead us out of the wilderness here.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#6 : October 05, 2009, 08:40:14 AM

If you are one of the ones that asked for it, you got it, so you need to sit back and enjoy it.  Those that didn't ask for a change have a legitimate gripe.

Truths:
1.  Never have an argument with an idiot.  They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with their experience.
2.  For some it would be better if they remained silent and be thought a fool than to speak and erase all doubt.

SepeBucs

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#7 : October 05, 2009, 08:47:23 AM

Regardless of your opinion if Morris, Gruden or even Dungy was the better coach yesterday, it has no reflection on what will happen tomorrow. Even if someone could have done better, he won't because he's not the coach now. Although understandable, discussing who might have done better is not going to fix tomorrow.

We all knew and expected Kiffen to leave. We all knew Brooks and company had their days numbered. Guess what, odds are, Barber won't play next year. We all knew and expected the big drop off when the team finally reshuffled. We may have disagreed about when it would happen or how it should happen, but I'd say the vast majority accepted that is was going to happen sooner or later and when it did, the Bucs would not be a very good team.

Well, it's happened. Now instead of talking about junk from yesterdays, we need to look forward and figure out how to return to being a good football team.

Morris is the coach. Should he be next year? Well, there is no one on the staff now that I would give the job to so I don't see any option for firing him now. Regardless of record, he will keep or lose his job based on how much HE improves as a head coach. The season is lost so now all he has to prove is that he can learn from his mistakes and get better. If things continue to spiral down and the team remains rudderless, say goodnight Rah. It's also possible if a Big name coach is will to come to Tampa, no matter what Rah does he is gone, but his only chance for survival in my opinion, is his ability to adjust, learn and get better.

Which response do we get this time? Butthurt? Needs medical treatment? Or the all time favorite, \"Drama Queen\"



Guest
#8 : October 05, 2009, 08:47:53 AM

I would never classify Gruden a total failure anymore than I would Dungy.  A total failure would be no division titles/SuperBowls.  Neither Gruden nor Dungy are in that category.

My initial point of this thread remains the same.

TheShadow

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#9 : October 05, 2009, 08:50:17 AM

If you are one of the ones that asked for it, you got it, so you need to sit back and enjoy it. Those that didn't ask for a change have a legitimate gripe.

I disliked Gruden's firing. But what's done is done and us pointing fingers won't help much, if at all.

I get who you're aiming this at but don't expect one of those folks to come clean and admit we made a huge mistake. Their fanhood won't let them. They will insist that the team is better off with Gruden/Allen gone. It clearly isn't true.


Quit beefing about the past and start hoping for the future

Feel Real Good

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#10 : October 05, 2009, 09:21:39 AM

I'm still on board, but I really thought Gruden should have been forced to coach this roster against this schedule so there wouldn't be any doubt the moves him and Allen made are responsible for the shape the team is in. I don't know if Morris is the solution (not looking good right now), but I do know the Bucs were going nowhere with the path they were taking.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

STULAAKE

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#11 : October 05, 2009, 12:08:58 PM

allow Morris at least two years to see if Freeman is "the" guy and even that may not be enough time to allow Freeman the time to be an NFL success...

Gruden had worn out his welcome, loved his passion and his work ethic, but if the players tune you out tough to succeed in any business when you tune the boss out

You must be accountable for your actions!

warrenfb12

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#12 : October 05, 2009, 12:15:38 PM

When the decision was made to fire Gruden and go to a youth movement, I'd say 90% of the visitors to this board were ecstatic.

Now, for both Gruden AND the organization, it was time for a change. Jon's hands were tied by both ownership. as well as the guy that was always referred to as Jon's "puppet", Bruce Allen.

I asked the question many times during all of the "Fire Gruden/Allen" threads that kept popping up, which was, "If the Bucs make the move to terminate Gruden, are you ready for the losing ways that go along with re-building?" I got very few responses one way or the other on the question, but it is plain to see that the answer is a resounding "No!!"

Sure, other teams are doing well with their HC changes, ala Denver and the Jets, and the Falcons of 2008, to name a few. They are exceptions to the fact that more often than not, the growing pains are lengthy, ala the Bucs.

Was Raheem Morris the right choice in the aforementioned change? I'm going to give the guy more than 4 games in before passing judgement. It would be largely unfair to do otherwise.

Just remember this---MANY of YOU asked for the change, so deal with the losing that usually goes along with it and quit the whining. Don't be the 'wagon fan that is only a fan during the good times. The absolute REAL fan will roll with the team ALL the time....good or bad.

And ALWAYS remember....YOU asked for it, YOU got it. Next time, be careful what you wish for.

I am thrilled we fired Gruden, I STILL AM. I am not sure on how I feel about Raheem yet, but the Gruden firing was a good move.


GhostRider

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#13 : October 05, 2009, 12:15:50 PM

The grass isn't always greener, but in this case, we traded in a nice lawn for Salem's Lot... [banghead]


JavaBuc

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#14 : October 05, 2009, 12:19:37 PM

I am thrilled we fired Gruden, I STILL AM. I am not sure on how I feel about Raheem yet, but the Gruden firing was a good move.

Are you drunk?   Firing Gruden was a top 5 mistake in the history of a mistake history filled franchise.
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