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krazybuc

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#30 : October 20, 2009, 05:10:50 PM

I do not believe that the glazers are holding this team back, never have.

Sure they are. By firing a winning HC in leiu of a garbage assistant, they've set the team back. Had they upgraded at HC, no one would be **CENSORED**in right now...

Do I believe that Raheem is the right coach for the job? Well I am not entirely sure. Still, with the Glazers track record for hiring coaches, I am willing to let this one play out.

ROFLMFAO...    Wonder if Detroit fans made as many b.s. excuses for Marinelli.

Not entirely sure? You waiting till we get to 0-7? 0-8?



white dragon

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#31 : October 20, 2009, 05:55:12 PM

Free Agency is highly overrated. what significant FAs do the Steelers have? Or the Colts? Or the Giants? Ravens?

The big spending teams Washington, Oakland, Dallas have how many Playoff wins the last 5 years?

Dynasties are drafted, not bought.
its a notion that requires more than first level thinking.

escobar

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#32 : October 20, 2009, 07:06:23 PM

Free Agency is highly overrated. what significant FAs do the Steelers have? Or the Colts? Or the Giants? Ravens?

The big spending teams Washington, Oakland, Dallas have how many Playoff wins the last 5 years?

Dynasties are drafted, not bought.
its a notion that requires more than first level thinking.


It's an opinion.

warrenfb12

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#33 : October 20, 2009, 07:09:09 PM

Free Agency is highly overrated. what significant FAs do the Steelers have? Or the Colts? Or the Giants? Ravens?

The big spending teams Washington, Oakland, Dallas have how many Playoff wins the last 5 years?

Dynasties are drafted, not bought.
its a notion that requires more than first level thinking.


It's an opinion.

It is not an opinion, it has been proven time and time again. Your child like need for instant gratification makes it difficult for you to understand this.


escobar

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#34 : October 20, 2009, 07:19:53 PM

Free Agency is highly overrated. what significant FAs do the Steelers have? Or the Colts? Or the Giants? Ravens?

The big spending teams Washington, Oakland, Dallas have how many Playoff wins the last 5 years?

Dynasties are drafted, not bought.
its a notion that requires more than first level thinking.


It's an opinion.

It is not an opinion, it has been proven time and time again. Your child like need for instant gratification makes it difficult for you to understand this.


Instant? I'll accept a year or two of poor play if there is any indication the pieces in place will get better. Right now there is no indication of that, which is why you ignored my request three times last night to name one single thing positive about what's going on right now.

The draft is a gamble, always has been and always will be. People around here have such a negative opinion on FA because for the past 4-5 years our owners have stopped spending. Next time you start to believe your own nonsense again consider this, without Brad Johnson, Simeon Rice, Michael Pittman, Keyshawn Johnson, Jeff Christy, Joe Jurevicius, Keenan McCardell, Roman Oben, or Greg Spires the Bucs never win the Super Bowl. All of those players except one (Keyshawn) came via FA, the other was via trade. You need to learn the difference between a fact and an opinion, your child like need to always be right often causes you to say things that sound ludicrous.

k_bassuka

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#35 : October 20, 2009, 07:38:51 PM

You missing Gaffney (starter), Hamilton(starter), Hill (starter), Hochstein, Holliday, Jordan, Kern (starter), Prater (starter), Reid, Smith, Stockley and Woodyard.

Gaffney's the 3rd WR and Stokley is the 4th WR
Hamilton was drafted
FRG listed Hill
Hochstein, Holliday, Jordan, Reid, and Smith aren't starters
Kern and Woodyard are undrafted rookie FA's
Prater was signed off of the Dolphin's practice squad



They completely get how to put a team together unlike our GM.

You're right they do.  They drafted franchise LT, QB, WR, and DE.

They run a 3 WR set, no FB just like NE. That’s why Gaffney is a starter.
I didn't say that the others are starters, if you don't draft a player he is a FA even if you are the first to sign him. I also said that pointing out only the starters is not fair because the other players contribute every week.
Anyway they made it work by drafting key players and bringing in key FA to help those players develop, unlike the Bucs.


FIRE MD NOW!!!

warrenfb12

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#36 : October 20, 2009, 07:48:39 PM

Free Agency is highly overrated. what significant FAs do the Steelers have? Or the Colts? Or the Giants? Ravens?

The big spending teams Washington, Oakland, Dallas have how many Playoff wins the last 5 years?

Dynasties are drafted, not bought.
its a notion that requires more than first level thinking.


It's an opinion.

It is not an opinion, it has been proven time and time again. Your child like need for instant gratification makes it difficult for you to understand this.


Instant? I'll accept a year or two of poor play if there is any indication the pieces in place will get better. Right now there is no indication of that, which is why you ignored my request three times last night to name one single thing positive about what's going on right now.

The draft is a gamble, always has been and always will be. People around here have such a negative opinion on FA because for the past 4-5 years our owners have stopped spending. Next time you start to believe your own nonsense again consider this, without Brad Johnson, Simeon Rice, Michael Pittman, Keyshawn Johnson, Jeff Christy, Joe Jurevicius, Keenan McCardell, Roman Oben, or Greg Spires the Bucs never win the Super Bowl. All of those players except one (Keyshawn) came via FA, the other was via trade. You need to learn the difference between a fact and an opinion, your child like need to always be right often causes you to say things that sound ludicrous.

I did not ignore your request. I named several. You asked for things that have gone right, I named them. You compared what had gone right with what Gruden had done right. You did not ask me to produce something to compare to Gruden. I agree that as of right now there isn't much indication of that. I have confidence in Mark Dominik, I am not sold on Raheem, but I think Dominik has done fairly well here. As for your statement trying to justify FA spending, THIS TEAM WON THE SUPERBOWL BECAUSE OF A DEFENSE DRAFTED BY COAHCES PRIOR TO GRUDEN. If you are implying that FA can sometimes push a team over the top, then yes I agree, but in order for a FA (or trade) over the top, there needs to be a base. The draft. Good teams, the Giants, the Pats, the Cowboys, the Chargers, the colts etc have been built on the draft.


escobar

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#37 : October 20, 2009, 08:05:04 PM

Free Agency is highly overrated. what significant FAs do the Steelers have? Or the Colts? Or the Giants? Ravens?

The big spending teams Washington, Oakland, Dallas have how many Playoff wins the last 5 years?

Dynasties are drafted, not bought.
its a notion that requires more than first level thinking.


It's an opinion.

It is not an opinion, it has been proven time and time again. Your child like need for instant gratification makes it difficult for you to understand this.


Instant? I'll accept a year or two of poor play if there is any indication the pieces in place will get better. Right now there is no indication of that, which is why you ignored my request three times last night to name one single thing positive about what's going on right now.

The draft is a gamble, always has been and always will be. People around here have such a negative opinion on FA because for the past 4-5 years our owners have stopped spending. Next time you start to believe your own nonsense again consider this, without Brad Johnson, Simeon Rice, Michael Pittman, Keyshawn Johnson, Jeff Christy, Joe Jurevicius, Keenan McCardell, Roman Oben, or Greg Spires the Bucs never win the Super Bowl. All of those players except one (Keyshawn) came via FA, the other was via trade. You need to learn the difference between a fact and an opinion, your child like need to always be right often causes you to say things that sound ludicrous.

I did not ignore your request. I named several. You asked for things that have gone right, I named them. You compared what had gone right with what Gruden had done right. You did not ask me to produce something to compare to Gruden. I agree that as of right now there isn't much indication of that. I have confidence in Mark Dominik, I am not sold on Raheem, but I think Dominik has done fairly well here. As for your statement trying to justify FA spending, THIS TEAM WON THE SUPERBOWL BECAUSE OF A DEFENSE DRAFTED BY COAHCES PRIOR TO GRUDEN. If you are implying that FA can sometimes push a team over the top, then yes I agree, but in order for a FA (or trade) over the top, there needs to be a base. The draft. Good teams, the Giants, the Pats, the Cowboys, the Chargers, the colts etc have been built on the draft.


It goes both ways, without those FA acquisitions we don't win the SB. Without the defensive players we drafted we don't win the SB. So if neither one was good enough without the other, why are you and others claiming drafting is THE way to go? Our 95 draft is one of the best ever in any sport period, yet we still NEEDED FA's to get us over the top. That should tell you all you need to know about this debate. IMO if you are going to rely on the draft while spending the least amount of money in FA you are asking for a bad football team, it's the only logical outcome. Too many draft picks fail to pan out for FA to be cast aside like it's meaningless like our owners have done for the past half decade.

And no, you didn't answer me. You named Winslow (while getting his stats wrong), you named the Gaines trade which depending on several different factors may or may not work out, and I believe you named Stroughter...which that alone proves you were grasping at straws. The guy has 13 catches for 151 yards after 6 games yet is looked at as a positive, VERY telling. So I'll complete the sentence for you: Ownership made the right decision to get rid of Gruden and hire Raheem because Sammie Stroughter has 13 catches for 151 yards after 6 games. Yep, now THAT'S a solid argument, sold.

burger40

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#38 : October 20, 2009, 08:13:10 PM

MD has stated as much in an article i believe i read on here where he says he looks to play in FA but his main focus is on teh draft because that is where a team is made and I agree. FA rarely provides you with more than one stud every couple years and since FAs are usually at least 26 or older you need to draft quality players in order to get into a position where all you need is a couple reliable FAs to push you over the top.

"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis de Tocqueville

escobar

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#39 : October 20, 2009, 08:17:39 PM

MD has stated as much in an article i believe i read on here where he says he looks to play in FA but his main focus is on teh draft because that is where a team is made and I agree. FA rarely provides you with more than one stud every couple years and since FAs are usually at least 26 or older you need to draft quality players in order to get into a position where all you need is a couple reliable FAs to push you over the top.

I agree you need to hit on some draft picks, obviously, but FA can help just as much if not more if done correctly. Spending the least amount of money isn't doing it correctly. Although considering Mark felt Leftwich was a starting caliber QB maybe it's better for us if he sticks to the draft.

DanTurksGhost

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#40 : October 20, 2009, 08:23:18 PM

Dynasties are drafted, not bought.

Dead on, JG. You don't fix a lot of bad drafting by throwing megabucks at a bunch of free agents. The broad foundation must first be laid in the draft and then FA's used to fill in the cracks.

warrenfb12

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#41 : October 20, 2009, 08:26:57 PM

REC  29 YDS  286 AVG  9.9 TDS  4

Tied for the league lead in TDs among TEs. That, IMO, so far is a success. Sammie Stroughter is a seventh round draft pick. Sammie has scored more TDs this season than Gruden's first round pick stone hands Clayton, and has more receptions if you want to compare. Yes Escobar, it is difficult to identified any significant success so far on this team and with this Regime, considering we are less than halfway through their first season. Success by Gruden can be easily identified because he was here from 02-09. His decisions had time to progress and be judged. Gruden COMPLETELY failed in terms of the draft, like it or not. He gave us no talent. Even his prized offensive line has looked like swiss cheese the past two years. In this league, you have to have success in the draft. The Gaines trade, regardless of the outcome, benefits us. Gaines was never going to have success as a buccaneer, his lack of motivation and his lack of physical strength were just more errors by a Regime that was completely inept at evaluating talent. One probowler....one! Pathetic! Everyone talks about Josh Freeman being a reach? How about Gaines Adams? How about Caddilac Williams? How about Michael Clayton? LOL!! His drafts were pathetic and that is why he is fired. He couldn't draft all he could do was pick up old FAs. The FA would come in and play decent against creampuff teams then turn around and completely fall apart against elite teams.


burger40

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#42 : October 20, 2009, 08:29:05 PM

MD has stated as much in an article i believe i read on here where he says he looks to play in FA but his main focus is on teh draft because that is where a team is made and I agree. FA rarely provides you with more than one stud every couple years and since FAs are usually at least 26 or older you need to draft quality players in order to get into a position where all you need is a couple reliable FAs to push you over the top.

I agree you need to hit on some draft picks, obviously, but FA can help just as much if not more if done correctly. Spending the least amount of money isn't doing it correctly. Although considering Mark felt Leftwich was a starting caliber QB maybe it's better for us if he sticks to the draft.

i don't think he tried to go cheap this off-season. I mean we offered more for Haynesworth than the Skins. Google it we did. And we gave K2 teh biggest contract of any TE in teh NFL. I think he is trying to be surgical in FA

"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis de Tocqueville

warrenfb12

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#43 : October 20, 2009, 08:32:49 PM

MD has stated as much in an article i believe i read on here where he says he looks to play in FA but his main focus is on teh draft because that is where a team is made and I agree. FA rarely provides you with more than one stud every couple years and since FAs are usually at least 26 or older you need to draft quality players in order to get into a position where all you need is a couple reliable FAs to push you over the top.



I agree you need to hit on some draft picks, obviously, but FA can help just as much if not more if done correctly. Spending the least amount of money isn't doing it correctly. Although considering Mark felt Leftwich was a starting caliber QB maybe it's better for us if he sticks to the draft.

Escobar, I am not debating occasionally FAs are needed. Faine was a good pick up, IMO. The fact of the matter is this, when a team is in this much trouble, no FAs are going to pull them up, there needs to be a base built. Sometimes FAs push a team over the top. For example, back when this season started, I thought we might have a decent offense. However, I felt we lacked a real playmaker at WR. At the time, would I have considered signing TO? Yes. Is he a headache? Yes. Still, when TO is on the field he is always a threat. Love him or hate him, the guy scores points and demands attention. He could be a valuable asset. Now, with a guy who I do not believe has the ability to stretch the field, a suspect offensive line, and no running game, there is no point in getting TO. I think there needs to be a base, before you start adding that piece to push you over the top. Especially with some of the high prices these guys are demanding. Marginal talent getting excessive salaries, it is stupid. Another example, the Patriots had a team a few years back. They felt as though they were lacking at the WR position. They acquired Randy Moss, Wes Welker and Stallworth. Did it push them over the top? Yes. Were the building blocks already in place? Absolutely.


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#44 : October 20, 2009, 08:33:47 PM

Anyway they made it work by drafting key players and bringing in key FA to help those players develop, unlike the Bucs.

Which was more important to the success, the drafting of franchise players at premiere positions or the paying for 2nd tier players to compliment those franchise players at premium positions?

I can't believe I actually have to have this discussion.

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