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bucs1

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#30 : October 22, 2009, 04:08:26 PM

Dexter Jackson, Marquis Cooper, etc were Bruce Allen picks given he has a tendency to focus on players with raw speed as a previous scout.

When and where was Bruce Allen a scout?

Bruce Allen was never a scout to my knowledge. He was a player agent before becoming the Senior Executive of the Oakland Raiders for seven years and then moving on to the Buccaneers as a general manager.

Feel Real Good

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#31 : October 22, 2009, 04:08:42 PM

After the debacle of the 2003 draft class from the point forward Jon made it a priority to draft polished, hard working players out of college (no more Marquise Walker/Travis Stephens type of players). �Ironically the best pick from the Gruden era is the biggest gamble arguably in Talib who had the opposite reputation in college.
I'm not sure that is how I would characterize Walker and Stephens. I'd say their problem was being high profile college players who simply didn't have the tools to be NFL player.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#32 : October 22, 2009, 04:12:36 PM

Here are the draft picks on the present active roster only. �Listed by Round.

That's 23 draftees on the present roster of 53. Balance are trades and FA.

1st �Freeman � � � � Kansas State
 ï¿½ � � Williams � � � � �Auburn
 ï¿½ � � Talib � � � � � � � Kansas
 ï¿½ � � Joseph � � � � � Oklahoma
 ï¿½ � � Clayton � � � � �LSU

2nd �Piscitelli � � � � Oregon State �
 ï¿½ � � �Ruud � � � � � � Nebraska
 ï¿½ � � �Trueblood � � Boston College
 ï¿½ � � �
3rd � Barber � � � � �Virginia
 ï¿½ � � �Black � � � � � � New Mexico
 ï¿½ � � �Stovall � � � � �Notre Dame
 ï¿½ � � �Miller � � � � � �Texas
 ï¿½ � � �Zuttah � � � � Rutgers

4th � Allen � � � � � �Ohio State
 ï¿½ � � �Jackson � � � �Syracuse
 ï¿½ � � �D. Moore � � �Maryland
 ï¿½ � � �K. Moore � � �Southern Cal

5th �Johnson � � � San Diego
 ï¿½ � � Mahan � � � � �Pittsburgh

6th � Cox � � � � � � Pittsburgh
 ï¿½ � � �Hayes � � � � �Florida State
 ï¿½ � � �Hayward � � Portland State � �

7th � Stroughter �Oregon State

Here are the draft picks on the present active roster only. �Listed by Round.

That's 23 draftees on the present roster of 53. Balance are trades and FA.

1st �Freeman � � � � Kansas State
 ï¿½ � � Williams � � � � �Auburn
 ï¿½ � � Talib � � � � � � � Kansas
 ï¿½ � � Joseph � � � � � Oklahoma
 ï¿½ � � Clayton � � � � �LSU

2nd �Piscitelli � � � � Oregon State �
 ï¿½ � � �Ruud � � � � � � Nebraska
 ï¿½ � � �Trueblood � � Boston College
 ï¿½ � � �
3rd � Barber � � � � �Virginia
 ï¿½ � � �Black � � � � � � New Mexico
 ï¿½ � � �Stovall � � � � �Notre Dame
 ï¿½ � � �Miller � � � � � �Texas
 ï¿½ � � �Zuttah � � � � Rutgers

4th � Allen � � � � � �Ohio State
 ï¿½ � � �Jackson � � � �Syracuse
 ï¿½ � � �D. Moore � � �Maryland
 ï¿½ � � �K. Moore � � �Southern Cal

5th �Johnson � � � San Diego
 ï¿½ � � Mahan � � � � �Pittsburgh

6th � Cox � � � � � � Pittsburgh
 ï¿½ � � �Hayes � � � � �Florida State
 ï¿½ � � �Hayward � � Portland State � �

7th � Stroughter �Oregon State


23 players on an 0-6 team...

bucs1

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#33 : October 22, 2009, 04:14:36 PM

I am not buying the idea that Hickey had a major say when Bruce/Jon were around. That to me sounds like sour grapes IMVHO.

That all depends on what years you are talking about. When the Glazer boys started getting into the draft and having more say on who the Bucs selected, Hickey also became more involved in the decision making. For example, the Gaines Adams pick was all on Hickey and the Glazers, with Kiffin giving some support too. Jon and Bruce wanted nothing to do with Gaines.

bucs1

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#34 : October 22, 2009, 04:17:24 PM

Bruce Allen was never a scout to my knowledge. He was a player agent before becoming the Senior Executive of the Oakland Raiders for seven years and then moving on to the Buccaneers as a general manager.

But I think you will agree, Talib, that privately Bruce fancied himself a high-level talent evaluator.

Sure, even though he was never a scout, BA still thought he was a good talent evaluator. He's had his ups and downs in that department.

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#35 : October 22, 2009, 04:21:01 PM

That all depends on what years you are talking about. When the Glazer boys started getting into the draft and having more say on who the Bucs selected, Hickey also became more involved in the decision making. For example, the Gaines Adams pick was all on Hickey and the Glazers, with Kiffin giving some support too. Jon and Bruce wanted nothing to do with Gaines.

More trash and mythmaking to sort out. Why it is after every back pick there's some random assertion that it wasn't Bruce and/or Jon's fault. Christ people trim their roles so much I wonder why anyone really cares all that much about them.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#36 : October 22, 2009, 04:22:38 PM

I am not buying the idea that Hickey had a major say when Bruce/Jon were around. That to me sounds like sour grapes IMVHO.

That all depends on what years you are talking about. When the Glazer boys started getting into the draft and having more say on who the Bucs selected, Hickey also became more involved in the decision making. For example, the Gaines Adams pick was all on Hickey and the Glazers, with Kiffin giving some support too. Jon and Bruce wanted nothing to do with Gaines.

Oh great, the Glazer boys have been meddling in talent evaluation and the draft?

No wonder the drafts have been horrendous. So Hickey is their little puppet.

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#37 : October 22, 2009, 04:24:39 PM

Oh great, the Glazer boys have been meddling in talent evaluation and the draft?

Actually, I will state that my information doesn't support that assertion.

bucs1

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#38 : October 22, 2009, 04:28:06 PM

That all depends on what years you are talking about. When the Glazer boys started getting into the draft and having more say on who the Bucs selected, Hickey also became more involved in the decision making. For example, the Gaines Adams pick was all on Hickey and the Glazers, with Kiffin giving some support too. Jon and Bruce wanted nothing to do with Gaines.

More trash and mythmaking to sort out. Why it is after every back pick there's some random assertion that it wasn't Bruce and/or Jon's fault. Christ people trim their roles so much I wonder why anyone really cares all that much about them.

That's no myth, and of course Bruce and Jon played big roles in drafting. The point I'm trying to make is that every draft day decision doesn't fall on their shoulders. Allen, Gruden, Hickey, the Glazers, the scouts, and the coaches have all played a role together in the selection of draft picks. One guy can't shoulder all of the blame, and the draft selection process is that of a big team of guys. Gruden got some of his picks, Allen got some of his picks, Hickey got some of his picks, the Glazers got some of their picks, Morris got some of his picks, Kiffin got some of his picks, the scouts got some of their picks, ect.....

bucs1

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#39 : October 22, 2009, 04:32:48 PM

Oh great, the Glazer boys have been meddling in talent evaluation and the draft?

Actually, I will state that my information doesn't support that assertion.

Talent evaluation, no. Draft selection, yes. They have been involved the past few years, and I've heard that from multiple sources. You've got to keep up to date on your information DTG. ;)

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#40 : October 22, 2009, 04:34:43 PM

Talent evaluation, no. Draft selection, yes. They have been involved the past few years, and I've heard that from multiple sources. You've got to keep up to date on your information DTG.

I'm up to date, Talib, and I still refute that assertion.

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#41 : October 22, 2009, 04:40:17 PM

Never good when owners start thinking they are football people.

If the Glazer boys want to salvage their investment, they better hire some people who know football and get out of the way.

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#42 : October 22, 2009, 05:01:19 PM

Hickey has a huge amount of influence in the final decision. It is even greater under Mark Dominik.



Thank you, now lets put this ridiculous theory that he should be let off the hook to rest. Although this won't sit well with the "Gruden ruined all of our drafts!!!!!!!!!!" people, but they are morons anyway so I guess it doesn't matter.

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#43 : October 22, 2009, 05:05:39 PM

Here are the draft picks on the present active roster only.  Listed by Round.

That's 23 draftees on the present roster of 53. Balance are trades and FA.

1st  Freeman         Kansas State
 Â      Williams          Auburn
 Â      Talib               Kansas
 Â      Joseph           Oklahoma
 Â      Clayton          LSU

2nd  Piscitelli         Oregon State  
 Â       Ruud             Nebraska
 Â       Trueblood     Boston College
 Â       
3rd   Barber          Virginia
 Â       Black             New Mexico
 Â       Stovall          Notre Dame
 Â       Miller            Texas
 Â       Zuttah         Rutgers

4th   Allen            Ohio State
 Â       Jackson        Syracuse
 Â       D. Moore      Maryland
 Â       K. Moore      Southern Cal

5th  Johnson       San Diego
 Â      Mahan          Pittsburgh

6th   Cox             Pittsburgh
 Â       Hayes          Florida State
 Â       Hayward     Portland State    

7th   Stroughter  Oregon State

Learn to disagree without being disagreeable-Ronald Reagan circa 1981

Uncle Stan

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#44 : October 22, 2009, 05:11:41 PM

Oh great, the Glazer boys have been meddling in talent evaluation and the draft?

Actually, I will state that my information doesn't support that assertion.

I agree with you. It makes sense.  Maybe in the first round they might have wanted know more about a give player etc. Their track record supports your point.

Learn to disagree without being disagreeable-Ronald Reagan circa 1981
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