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escobar

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#60 : October 22, 2009, 09:50:07 PM

I don't know for sure who Jon would have picked, but I think Quinn would have been the pick.

Quinn and Brohm....he can sure pick 'em.

Yeah in all of this "Jon didn't want Gaines twisted logic" he wanted players who are arguably worse than Mr Adams..those Grudenista tears are simply succulent!


No, he wanted Calvin Johnson, we weren't in position to grab him. Which of course must be a lie because Gruden can't spot talent, so either CJ is a mirage or people around here just don't know what they're talking about. This is right in line with "he never found our future QB". The right players have to be available, just because we need something doesn't mean it was there to be had.

There are many players that are drafted who teams want.  So lets shake this Jon didn't want a DE for his defense a subject for debate.

Jon in a recent interview with NFL films conceded that a great defense can triumph over a great offense.  Jon understands that the Bucs desperately needed an edge pass rusher to replace Rice on the weak side.

The Bucs pass rush in 2006 was poor as was the secondary play which is why heading into the 2007 draft the Bucs:

1. Bucs drafted a DE
2. Bucs drafted two safties





Did you see Monte after the Gaines pick? I bet he wasn't that excited when he lost his virginity. I'm not buying Gruden wanted Gaines.

alldaway

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#61 : October 22, 2009, 09:53:48 PM

I don't know for sure who Jon would have picked, but I think Quinn would have been the pick.

Quinn and Brohm....he can sure pick 'em.

Yeah in all of this "Jon didn't want Gaines twisted logic" he wanted players who are arguably worse than Mr Adams..those Grudenista tears are simply succulent!


No, he wanted Calvin Johnson, we weren't in position to grab him. Which of course must be a lie because Gruden can't spot talent, so either CJ is a mirage or people around here just don't know what they're talking about. This is right in line with "he never found our future QB". The right players have to be available, just because we need something doesn't mean it was there to be had.

There are many players that are drafted who teams want. �So lets shake this Jon didn't want a DE for his defense a subject for debate.

Jon in a recent interview with NFL films conceded that a great defense can triumph over a great offense. �Jon understands that the Bucs desperately needed an edge pass rusher to replace Rice on the weak side.

The Bucs pass rush in 2006 was poor as was the secondary play which is why heading into the 2007 draft the Bucs:

1. Bucs drafted a DE
2. Bucs drafted two safties





Did you see Monte after the Gaines pick? I bet he wasn't that excited when he lost his virginity. I'm not buying Gruden wanted Gaines.

Why would the win now Gru/Allen regime draft a QB with a top five pick?

Their mantra was a rookie is paid X amount of money without proving themselves at the NFL level, so they need to be able to play year 1 or contribute in some way.  That was their core philsophy which is why all the Bucs draft selections under them played heavily year 1 with the exception of Clayton who they planned to have as an occasional WR with heavy special teams play.  Now Gru probably would have taken a shot with Brohm with a 2nd round pick which Allen probably blocked him from happening, but Allen was Gru's recommendation.  You reap what you sow.


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#62 : October 23, 2009, 12:48:32 PM

Coach Gruden didn't want Gaines Adams. Coach Kiffin DID want Gaines Adams. I completely dispute the notion that Bruce Allen didn't want Adams, my information tells me that Bruce Allen was fully on board with the Adams pick. In fact, he was the one who stood up and told Coach Gruden how it was going to be before the pick went up.

Feel Real Good

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#63 : October 23, 2009, 01:13:13 PM

I don't think anyone would believe Gruden "wanted" Gaines Adams, even though for a long time he has stated the importance of pass rush for team success. The fact was after three consecutive 1st round picks previously going to the offense and the defense not having a 1st round pick since 1999, it simply wasn't Gruden's turn. Obviously the gurus who evaluate defensive talent should have done a better job.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

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#64 : October 23, 2009, 02:19:06 PM

Coach Gruden didn't want Gaines Adams. Coach Kiffin DID want Gaines Adams. I completely dispute the notion that Bruce Allen didn't want Adams, my information tells me that Bruce Allen was fully on board with the Adams pick. In fact, he was the one who stood up and told Coach Gruden how it was going to be before the pick went up.

Well, I was told that Allen didn't want Adams either, but I don't think it mattered to him that much since most were on board with the pick.

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#65 : October 23, 2009, 02:32:45 PM

Coach Gruden didn't want Gaines Adams. Coach Kiffin DID want Gaines Adams. I completely dispute the notion that Bruce Allen didn't want Adams, my information tells me that Bruce Allen was fully on board with the Adams pick. In fact, he was the one who stood up and told Coach Gruden how it was going to be before the pick went up.

Well, I was told that Allen didn't want Adams either, but I don't think it mattered to him that much since most were on board with the pick.

Well, I just dont know who to believe here.

Booker Reese

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#66 : October 23, 2009, 03:55:54 PM

Is it just me, or does this seem chaotic?

Maybe it's just because we have a series of snippets of info, but if I were running the draft room a lot of these arguments would have been worked out in advance and  would inform the rankings on the draft board.  There shouldn't be a lot of debate before the pick.

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#67 : October 23, 2009, 04:00:35 PM

Evidence that the Bucs drafts were reactionary based on what transpired from the previous season only highlights the point that Hickey didn't have as much as power as Grudenista's try to argue which is why the win now Gruden/Allen team had a heavy dose of say in all of these selections:

2004:  Clayton was drafted with the looming contract dispute of Keenan McCardell.
2005: Carnell Williams was drafted after the team let Thomas Jones walk in 2004, and his replacement (Charlie Garner) failed to bring short term stability.
2006:  Davin Joseph to replace Sean Mahan at RG.
2007: The Bucs drafted Gaines Adams to shore up a pitiful pass rush from 2006
2008: The Bucs drafted Talib to shore up the nickel position


Is you for real?

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#68 : October 24, 2009, 01:14:09 AM

those of you who are insiders, read the magazine's article about how drafting worked under Allen and Dominiks new approach. a very good read i must say.

"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." Alexis de Tocqueville

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#69 : October 24, 2009, 07:24:04 AM

Evidence that the Bucs drafts were reactionary based on what transpired from the previous season only highlights the point that Hickey didn't have as much as power as Grudenista's try to argue which is why the win now Gruden/Allen team had a heavy dose of say in all of these selections:

2004:  Clayton was drafted with the looming contract dispute of Keenan McCardell.
2005: Carnell Williams was drafted after the team let Thomas Jones walk in 2004, and his replacement (Charlie Garner) failed to bring short term stability.
2006:  Davin Joseph to replace Sean Mahan at RG.
2007: The Bucs drafted Gaines Adams to shore up a pitiful pass rush from 2006
2008: The Bucs drafted Talib to shore up the nickel position


Is you for real?
That is a regular play.  LOL

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

alldaway

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#70 : October 24, 2009, 09:53:16 AM

McKay/Allen failed to extend him, so yeah I lay it at the feet of two GM's.

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#71 : October 24, 2009, 11:02:31 AM

Gruden and Allen are only responsible for the good picks, Hickey and the Glazers are responsible for the bad picks, there, that makes it easy.  Jeez!

alldaway

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#72 : October 24, 2009, 11:27:04 AM

No offense but where does the "Jon only likes offensive players" myth come from? 

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#73 : October 24, 2009, 02:06:28 PM

Coach Gruden didn't want Gaines Adams. Coach Kiffin DID want Gaines Adams. I completely dispute the notion that Bruce Allen didn't want Adams, my information tells me that Bruce Allen was fully on board with the Adams pick. In fact, he was the one who stood up and told Coach Gruden how it was going to be before the pick went up.

Well, I was told that Allen didn't want Adams either, but I don't think it mattered to him that much since most were on board with the pick.

Well, I just dont know who to believe here.

Read this PI article to find your answers about this topic, which I have said all along throughout the thread:

http://www.pewterreport.com/articles/view/6167 - So now you know who has been right about this.
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