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GhostRider

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#15 : October 23, 2009, 12:46:23 PM

There is a giant Confederate flag flying in Tampa over the I-4 and I-75 junction....






NO THERE IS NOT!

That is NOT a Confederate Flag!!!

That is a Second Confederate Naval Flag. The Confederate Army Battle flag was square. Any flag using a Jack design was strictly used as a battle flag, it DID NOT represent any political ideas, or any country, it only represented military units!!!


Again, it goes back to perception being reality.  I highly doubt that the majority of Americans know the history of said flag. 


GhostRider

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#16 : October 23, 2009, 10:01:21 AM

I'm from and now live in Texas again.  Texas is full of "backyard" racists.  Normal, upper middle class, college educated church going folks who cheer for the Cowboys on Sunday and tell black jokes around the grill...


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#17 : October 23, 2009, 10:05:53 AM

I'm from and now live in Texas again. Texas is full of "backyard" racists. Normal, upper middle class, college educated church going folks who cheer for the Cowboys on Sunday and tell black jokes around the grill...

Is this a large enough cross section of Texans for you to be able to make this statement or is that only not good when counting Christians?

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bucpimpin

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#18 : October 23, 2009, 10:22:01 AM

I'm from and now live in Texas again. Texas is full of "backyard" racists. Normal, upper middle class, college educated church going folks who cheer for the Cowboys on Sunday and tell black jokes around the grill...

Is this a large enough cross section of Texans for you to be able to make this statement or is that only not good when counting Christians?

Telling black jokes doesn't make you a racist. I tell all kinds of ethnic jokes. I am married to a woman that is half honduran and half Black. I am a white guy. Kids are mixed obviously.. .Jokes are just jokes. Cant take them too seriously.


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#19 : October 23, 2009, 10:45:43 AM

I'm from and now live in Texas again. Texas is full of "backyard" racists. Normal, upper middle class, college educated church going folks who cheer for the Cowboys on Sunday and tell black jokes around the grill...

Is this a large enough cross section of Texans for you to be able to make this statement or is that only not good when counting Christians?

Telling black jokes doesn't make you a racist. I tell all kinds of ethnic jokes. I am married to a woman that is half honduran and half Black. I am a white guy. Kids are mixed obviously.. .Jokes are just jokes. Cant take them too seriously.

Exactly.  Its a societal norm that you don't say those kinds of jokes in the presence of the race that might be offended, but plenty of people tell racial jokes that aren't racist I believe.  They're just jokes that play on stereotypes.  It doesn't mean you hate people of that race at all.

BucsBullsBolts

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#20 : October 23, 2009, 10:55:27 AM

so is flying the flag that last stood for states rights.

That flag stands for different things to different people. To you, it's states' rights ... to some it's slavery and racism .... to some it's heritage. To me, I see a near miss ... Have you ever thought about what would have happened if the South had won and we were two countries (at least) instead of one great one? There had to have been some published speculation over the last century as to what it would have looked like...

http://www.sfsite.com/~silverag/greatwar.html

Cool.... thanks.

The White Tiger

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#21 : October 23, 2009, 11:11:32 AM

so is flying the flag that last stood for states rights.

That flag stands for different things to different people. To you, it's states' rights ... to some it's slavery and racism .... to some it's heritage. To me, I see a near miss ... Have you ever thought about what would have happened if the South had won and we were two countries (at least) instead of one great one? There had to have been some published speculation over the last century as to what it would have looked like...

Actually, my ancestors fought and died to end slavery. Their blood helped buy freedom for the oppressed who did not try to buy it themselves. My family were abolitionists motivated to fight to end what they felt was a blight on the liberty of people held as slaves.

The great travesty of our education regarding this period is that educators have portrayed that the south went to war in order to protect the institution of slavery.

While slavery was certainly a polarizing issue - it was not THE issue that motivated southerners to rebel. Most southern troops were not wealthy slave owners. The majority did not even own slaves. They were motivated to stand up and fight for their states rights against what they felt was a strengthening, tyrannically powerful, central government that could "force them to behave".

They felt that if they took one injustice then more would come.

That flag represents racism, to those trained to look for racism. I was born in the north, but raised in the south. I have seen racism and I have seen get even-ism (or reverse discrimination), and they are both wrong.

That flag means nothing to me - but I know folks who are not racists that fly it as an anti-government protest.

The period of reconstruction was the cold war after the hot portion of the civil war.

Many injustices were heaped on the south, and racism sprang from it. I have thought about what would have happened if the south had won the right to secede - there are modern historical articles which state that slavery would not have lasted due to socio-economic and technological pressures...

...but I think more about what would have happened if Lincoln had not been assassinated. He was adamantly opposed to the idea of punishing the south through the policies of re-construction. THOSE failed and short-sighted policies nurtured bitterness into hatred and became the fertilizer for racism.

I think that the right side lost that war, but the aftermath by short-sighted men used it to enhance their own political power. They did not want southerners re-introduced into the nations governance. The south was cut-off financially as the war wiped out the region agriculturally, the ability to muster a militia was restricted and depleted, and on top of this there was no political representation for those who were truly wronged...so from this came an embittered racism that last for another 100 years - by the time I moved to Georgia in the early 70's I could see the vestiges of that era, but it was dieing - prosperous democracies change society - if by nothing else creating a mobile and transient population.

That flag does not mean racism to anyone I know. It does mean rebellion, it is an anti-government statement, but it has ceased meaning racisim.

Some folks need to stop tilting at windmills.

You will always find what you are looking for.

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cyberdude557

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#22 : October 23, 2009, 12:34:00 PM

There is a giant Confederate flag flying in Tampa over the I-4 and I-75 junction....




John Galt?

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#23 : October 23, 2009, 12:35:46 PM

I have lived down here all my life but I cannot stand that confederate flag garbage, and anyone that is flying it and says they're not a racist is probably.................LYING.

So if I fly this:



I'm a racist???

I bet I could fly that flag in ANY part of ANY town and not one person would object.

People get all up in a roar about history that they don't even know.



GhostRider

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#24 : October 23, 2009, 12:38:21 PM

Let's put it this way:

The swastika was a harmless symbol.  Until Hitler used it as his flag and killed a bunch of people.  The confederate flag was once a harmless symbol.  But then the racists POS rednecks got ahold of it and have used it as a symbol of white power.  Now, that's what the majority of the nation associates it with.  With symbolism, perception is reality.


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#25 : October 23, 2009, 12:41:22 PM

There is a giant Confederate flag flying in Tampa over the I-4 and I-75 junction....






NO THERE IS NOT!

That is NOT a Confederate Flag!!!

That is a Second Confederate Naval Flag. The Confederate Army Battle flag was square. Any flag using a Jack design was strictly used as a battle flag, it DID NOT represent any political ideas, or any country, it only represented military units!!!


swashbuccaler

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#26 : October 23, 2009, 02:11:53 PM

I have lived down here all my life but I cannot stand that confederate flag garbage, and anyone that is flying it and says they're not a racist is probably.................LYING.


::) This is very ignorant.


Suh or bust, Dom. You make the call.

swashbuccaler

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#27 : October 23, 2009, 02:12:53 PM

There is a giant Confederate flag flying in Tampa over the I-4 and I-75 junction....





thats within like a mile or two of my place.


Suh or bust, Dom. You make the call.

BucsBullsBolts

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#28 : October 23, 2009, 02:24:06 PM

There is a giant Confederate flag flying in Tampa over the I-4 and I-75 junction....






NO THERE IS NOT!

That is NOT a Confederate Flag!!!

Yes, it is .... Second Confederate[/b] Naval Flag[/b] ... It's just not THE Confederate Flag.

The White Tiger

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#29 : October 23, 2009, 06:02:33 PM

Well how did perception become reality?

Some say racist pigs created reality, others say soldiers who didn't own any slaves carried it into battle over the right of states to NOT do something the federal government had decided to do for one of the first times in history, up to that point.

Perhaps it is a symbol adopted by other types of bigots in order to control emotions to manipulate folks.

As I've told you, I know plenty of folks who fly that flag as a protest against government - that are not racists.

They don't want their symbol stolen from them by racists or by the bigots who use race to gain the political high ground.

The new bigots enjoy painting everyone in the south, especially those who display that part of southern heritage, as racists. There is no one left alive from that time, so in order for this feeling to be so widespread someone had to teach you this symbol was bad.

How about we don't let the new bigots give this symbol it's definition, how about we let the folks who like this symbold define it.

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