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SepeBucs

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: October 24, 2009, 10:40:50 PM

After seeing the thread about why we should trust the Glazers, I thought I would present a counter point. I’m not a conspiracy nut or such, just putting together a few loose bits of information to see if fits together. My question is, are the Glazers in favor of and preparing for a lock out?

All the coaches’ contracts will expire so no salaries will have to be paid there. Grudens and Allens may extend past that, but at least a good chuck if not all of it should eliminated when they join a new team next year.

All Bucs players, so far, that should be up for contract extensions are instead being ignored in hopes the salary cap is gone next year and they get these players on the cheap for 1 more year and they don’t have to pay them anything if a lock out occurs. This may not be relevant as I don’t think any player gets anything during a lock out, but that could depend on the timing. OTA or reporting bonuses is what I am referring too. When would a lock out officially start? My understanding is it would start the moment FA would normally begin. We have seen tons of players cut prior to this date because of bonuses due just prior to it. All those players playing on RFA tenders and transition or franchise tags this next year would not be owed a dime. In fact, despite their contracts being over, it’s near certain (IMHO) that very few FA’s will move around after the lockout. There will most likely be a short time frame agreed to in which each teams has sole negotiation powers. And if the lockout goes into the season, players won’t want to wait weeks missing games and pay checks after they have already missed so many. So at least for the 1st year coming out of a lockout, the home teams should be at a great advantage over the players.

The Stadium - Rent is $3m a year, flat, never goes up. They also receive 100% the first $2m of non football revenue at the stadium and 50% of parking and concessions after $2m. A good example, when the Bulls play there, even though the Bucs organization does nothing, it gets to profit from it.

One Buc Place - To my understanding is flat out owned by the Bucs so the only expenses there would be utility and such. If a lock out were to happen, it would most likely just be shut down and locked up, not even a janitor. All those employees would most likely be “laid off” until the lock out is over. There may be loan payments due here, but I doubt they are that much.

TV contracts – Even if there is a lock out, the NFL and the teams will still get the TV money from at least CBS and Fox (The Direct TV deal expires in 2011). Although the networks will get that money back later in the form of credits, the owners still get to add dollars to their balance sheet. We are talking in the range of 1.3 Billion (yes with a B) here. That’s over $40 million per team.
Season Ticket Holders – This one I don’t know. Those who have already paid their security deposit or such, will they get that money back or will they get a “credit” towards the next season. Anyone around who was a season ticket holder during the last strike or another sports season strike? My thinking is the Bucs can sit on the money and use it for their purposes.

Local Deals – Advertising, radio and TV. The first obvious one is the Bucs won’t need to advertise so there is one less expense. The other is deals they have made with local radio or TV stations. Will they still have to pay to be the Bucs flagship station even if there are no games? Will they like CBS and Fox receive credits in the future as compensation? Is this more free money for the Glazers?
It is easy to see that the Bucs ownership will be making a LOT of money during a lockout. With the vast majority of their expenses tied up in salaries (which won’t happen during a lock out) and the vast majority of their income still ensured, a lock out could be free money for the Glazers. In reality, the only thing the glazers will lose is up to 8 home Buccaneers game.
Overall, the worst case scenario (from the Glazers perspective) would be a new CBA done before 2010 and all they get from that is a team that losses a lot of games. But with the CBA they will probably get more money anyways so no big deal. Best case, no salary cap in 2010 with minimal contracts and a 2011 full of free money.

From a financial and business standpoint, what they are doing may be the smartest move. We fans may not agree with it but 99% of fans can be bought out anyways. Worst case for us fans is no football in 2011 and a loser for a few years after that. But once the orange has been squeezed for every drop and the Glazers finally give in and either sell or built a real competitor, most fans will forget about what happened.  Think back to the stadium deal. Most were opposed to it. Most forgot about it with the SB win.

Link to Stadium deal - http://tampa.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid:293314

Link to TV Contract - http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E3DC163FF933A15756C0A96F9C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all



Which response do we get this time? Butthurt? Needs medical treatment? Or the all time favorite, \"Drama Queen\"

JasonOfthetower

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#1 : October 25, 2009, 12:25:37 AM

Nice job, Sepe and I agree with you 100% on your theories.

I do believe the Glazers are planning for the lock out. That's why unless Raheem goes 0-16, I see no way he's being fired, although he probably should be if it was a normal situation.


BucFanSince76

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#2 : October 25, 2009, 12:45:18 AM

There was an article in the Wall Street Journal that told of how the Bucs are the lowest paying team in the NFL and they make the player contracts look big just to make the salary cap floor. They put in things like "The Player must block 6 field goal attempts" into the contract, incentives no player will ever make. Then they count the full amount of the contract against the cap. This is Hugh Culverhouse all over again.

The Glazers and Manchester United are the real problems with the Bucs.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704224004574489773943949070.html

BucFanSince76

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#3 : October 25, 2009, 12:53:04 AM

The Glazers are pillaging the Tampa Bay area. They have no thought of a championship team. They only care about the revenue the team generates. The players, the coaches and the fans don't mean diddley to those guys. The Glazers are the problem.

I'm starting to think Gruden and Morris are patsies setup to fail.

This has nothing to do with the uncapped year. It has everything to do with spending the least they can get away with.

We have the information, now what to do about it?

BucFanSince76

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#4 : October 25, 2009, 12:56:50 AM

Quote from the Wall Street Journal:

A person familiar with the finances of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers says that last season, the team signed two free-agents, running back Noah Herron and defensive end Patrick Chukwurah, for contracts that totalled $25 million. Under the rules of the salary cap, the Buccaneers were charged that full amount for the players. But to actually earn that money, each player had to, among other things, block six punts apiece—an exceedingly difficult prospect. In the end, neither player ended up taking a single snap. Mr. Herron was paid $157,000 and Mr. Chukwurah $71,000, although the team's salary-cap number reflected the full value of their contracts. Tampa Bay, which ranked among the lowest teams in spending last season, has lost all six of its games. Tampa Bay and NFL officials declined to comment.

benchwarmer69

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#5 : October 25, 2009, 10:11:08 AM

Eh, every year I think "oh, they're just going to use that money later."

riiiight


MBF

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#6 : October 25, 2009, 10:55:39 AM

Good post SepeBucs.

I agree the Glazers don't give a shlt about the fans.

SepeBucs

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#7 : October 26, 2009, 02:53:36 AM

Some more interesting tidbits.

The Buccaneers are owned by Buccaneers Limited Partnership
Manchester United is owned by Manchester United Ltd
Buccaneers Limited Partnership is 100% owned by the Glazer Family Trust
Manchester United Ltd is owned by Red Football Ltd, a NEVADA based company
Red Football Ltd General partner, Glazer Family Trust
MU has shifted it's debt load to Red Football ltd
Profits from Manchester United Ltd go to Red Football Ltd
Profits from Red Football go to the Glazer Family Trust
Profits from the Buccaneers go to Buccaneers Limited Partnership
Profits from Buccaneers Limited Partnership go to Glazer family Trust
Liabilities of Red Football Ltd must be paid by Glazer Family Trust
Liabilities of Red Football Ltd now include loan payment for the purchase of MU

NFL strictly prohibits the Buccaneers to be used as debt in other ventures

but

NFL allows profits to be spent as they wish

Especially by moving the debt from MU LTD to Red Football LTD, the profits from the Buccaneers can now easily be used to pay debts held by Red Football that include the MU loans.

I know many figured this before, but now we actually have some names and facts. Also note, the Glazers appear to be 100% within NFL rules and laws. So technically they are doing nothing wrong. But my worry is the fact that Red Football, a company based out of Nevada is now liable for the MU debt. What happens if they default on the debt? Although the Buccaneers are not used as any form of collateral, could a bankruptcy judge demand the Glazer Trust to make payment, and in turn demand the Glazer Trust sell assets, to include the Buccaneers, to meet those demands?

Which response do we get this time? Butthurt? Needs medical treatment? Or the all time favorite, \"Drama Queen\"



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#8 : October 26, 2009, 03:25:20 AM

Down with Evil Rich People.

They MUST be evil.  Anyone who makes more than me got it unfairly.


hold on a sec, gotta call the waaaahhhmbulanance....


SepeBucs

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#9 : October 26, 2009, 08:24:42 AM

Where did I cry about them being rich? Where did I call them evil? Just because you have nothing of value to post you have to resort to insults. Don't worry, that waaaahhhmbulanance you called will be by to pick you up shortly.

Which response do we get this time? Butthurt? Needs medical treatment? Or the all time favorite, \"Drama Queen\"

Thomas

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#10 : October 26, 2009, 08:41:49 AM

lol @ sepe, ??hey where is uncle stan to make his 1 line comment about "where's da facts"??. I think he wrote something along the lines of " and u sure wont" when a poster said there was no data concerning the premise that Buccaneer money (profits) are not being re-invested into the team but are being used to finance MU DEBT!
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