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magicfan39126

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#15 : February 24, 2007, 10:23:17 PM

Quanza?
Christmas..........

Quote
make the starting claim that Jesus wasn't resurrected

lmao, we need 'proof' that Jesus wasn't resurrected?

Christianity doesn't hinge on this event anyway.

Of course Jesus wasn't resurrected, and what difference does it make?

What difference does it make? Have you ever heard of Easter?

It is one of the foundations of Christian faith.

Again, in any religion, the moral code it establishes, usually expressed through stories is where you'll find the redeeming qualities.

If there was no mention of Jesus being resurrected or the (approximate) date that he was born, does anything change besides the number of people that might be allured by the religion? The 'message' remains the same, regardless of Easter and Christmas.

heh


dr3z

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#16 : February 24, 2007, 10:24:22 PM

DI$# in BOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quanza?
Christmas..........

Quote
make the starting claim that Jesus wasn't resurrected

lmao, we need 'proof' that Jesus wasn't resurrected?

Christianity doesn't hinge on this event anyway.

Of course Jesus wasn't resurrected, and what difference does it make?

What difference does it make? Have you ever heard of Easter?

It is one of the foundations of Christian faith.

Again, in any religion, the moral code it establishes, usually expressed through stories is where you'll find the redeeming qualities.

If there was no mention of Jesus being resurrected or the (approximate) date that he was born, does anything change besides the number of people that might be allured by the religion? The 'message' remains the same, regardless of Easter and Christmas.

heh



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#17 : February 24, 2007, 11:16:48 PM

As much as alot of you don't believe in the Bible or anything that deals with Jesus, I don't believe in any of the corny or bogus stories that try to contradict all of that either.



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#18 : February 24, 2007, 11:21:52 PM

I'm a deist, I believe in God, and Jesus, but I believe (for the most part) that God is more of a clock watcher.

ufojoe

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#19 : February 25, 2007, 01:06:09 AM

If this is somehow proven, it's a huge deal. The alleged Son of God becomes "just" a great teacher
who couldn't over come death.

As much as alot of you don't believe in the Bible or anything that deals with Jesus, I don't believe in any of the corny or bogus stories that try to contradict all of that either.

So, if evidence shows up that contradicts your beliefs, you will hide your head in the sand and ignore it?

Boid Fink

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#20 : February 25, 2007, 01:49:19 AM

I wonder how they could prove it was Jesus?

Do they have other DNA to cross reference it with?

Gimme a break.


ufojoe

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#21 : February 25, 2007, 03:21:25 AM

I agree Boid. I was asking the same thing to my co-workers. Maybe they can prove that certai
bodies were related via DNA. But the "proof" that this was Jesus may come from the names
on the caskets. All of them match Jesus, his Mom Mary, Mary Mag. and so on. ALLEGEDLY.
I'm speculating. Let's see what is said. I'm looking forward to the doc.

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#22 : February 25, 2007, 03:30:13 AM

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070224.wlosttomb0224/BNStory/Front/home

Has the DNA of Jesus Christ been found?

MICHAEL POSNER

Globe and Mail Update

Has the DNA of Jesus Christ been found?

That tantalizing question underpins The Lost Tomb of Jesus — a new book and feature documentary film with potentially profound implications for Christianity.

The two provocative works suggest that ossuaries once containing the bones of Jesus of Nazareth and his family are now stored in a warehouse belonging to the Israel Antiquity Authority in Bet Shemesh, outside Jerusalem.

Although the evidence contained in the film and book is hardly definitive, it is compelling. Inscribed in Hebrew, Latin or Greek, six boxes — taken from a 2,000-year-old cave discovered in March, 1980, during excavation for a housing project in Talpiyot, south of Jerusalem — bear the names: Yeshua (Jesus) bar Yosef (son of Joseph); Maria (the Latin version of Miriam, which is the English Mary); Matia (the Hebrew equivalent of Matthew, a name common in the lineage of both Mary and Joseph); Yose; (the Gospel of Mark refers to Yose as a brother of Jesus); Yehuda bar Yeshua, or Judah, son of Jesus; and in Greek, Mariamne e mara — meaning 'Mariamne, known as the master.' According to Harvard professor Francois Bovon, interviewed in the film, Mariamne was Mary Magdalene's real name.

The bones once contained in the boxes have long since been reburied, according to Jewish custom — in unmarked graves in Israel.

If the evidence adduced is correct, the bone boxes — and microscopic remains of DNA still contained inside — would constitute the first archaeological evidence of the existence of the Christian saviour and his family.

Tests on mitochondrial DNA obtained from the Jesus and Mariamne boxes and conducted at Lakehead University's Paleo-DNA laboratory, in Thunder Bay, Ont., show conclusively that the two individuals were not maternally related. According to Dr. Carney Matheson, the lab's head, this likely means they were related by marriage.

Thus, the book and film raise seminal questions, not only about the early movement of Judeo-Christians that Jesus led, but about whether, as some scholars believe, he might have been married to Mary Magdalene and fathered a family.

Nothing in the film or book challenges traditional Christian dogma regarding the resurrection. But it could pose a problem for those that believe Jesus' ascension, 40 days after the resurrection, was both physical and spiritual. And, if further DNA testing were to link Jesus and Yose with Mary, it would call into question the entire doctrine of the Virgin Birth.

The $4-million documentary is the work two Canadians — Emmy-award winner director Simcha Jacobovici and his executive producer, Oscar-award winning filmmaker James Cameron. It will air on Canada's Vision TV on March 6th and later next month on Discovery US and Britain's Channel 4. A companion book, The Jesus Family Tomb, by Mr. Jacobovici and Dr. Charles Pellegrino, has just been released (Harper Collins).

Mr. Jacobovici and Mr. Cameron are scheduled to hold a press conference Monday morning at the New York Public Library, with the Jesus and Mary Magdelene ossuaries, flown in from Israel, on display.

Meanwhile, security agents have been hired to stand guard outside the Talpiyot apartments beneath which the tomb lies, covered by a large cement plate.

"I don't think this changes the fundamentals of faith," Mr. Cameron said in an interview this week. "But the evidence is pretty darn compelling and it definitely bears further study."

Not everyone agrees. "It's a beautiful story, but without any proof whatsoever," archaeologist Dr. Amos Kloner, who wrote the original report on the Talpiyot cave findings, told an Israeli reporter last week. "The names...found on the tombs are names that are similar to the names of the family of Jesus. But those were the most common names found among Jews in the first centuries BCE and CE."

Yet if the individual names were common, the film and book ask: what is the likelihood that this particular group of names, so resonant of the Jesus story, would appear together, contained in the same family tomb?

"There are really only two possibilities," says director Jacobovici. "Either this cluster of names represents the tomb of Jesus of Nazareth and his family. Or some other family, with this very same constellation of names, existed at precisely the same time in history in Jerusalem."

To calculate the odds, Mr. Jacobovici took the data to University of Toronto mathematician Dr. Andrey Feuerverger. Factoring in the commonality of these names in first-Century Israel, Dr. Feuerverger puts the odds of this tomb not belonging to Jesus and his family at one in 600.

Another estimate, commissioned by Dr. James Tabor, chair of the department of religion studies at the University of North Carolina, puts the odds at one in 42 million. "If you took the entire population of Jerusalem at the time," says Dr. Taber, "and put it in a stadium, and asked everyone named Jesus to stand up, you'd have about 2,700 men. Then you'd ask only those with a father named Joseph and a mother named Mary to remain standing. And then those with a brother named Yose and a brother named James. Statistically, you end up with one person."

The James reference is significant because of the 10 ossuaries found at Talpiyot, one later disappeared. Many experts believe that coffin is the now infamous 'James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus' ossuary that turned up a few years ago and was put on public display at the Royal Ontario Museum.

Although many scholars have called the inscription 'brother of Jesus' a modern-day forgery, at least as many academics continue to believe in its authenticity.

Moreover, tests conducted for The Lost Tomb of Jesus show that the patina encrusted on the James ossuary bears precisely the same chemical thumbprint as the other ossuaries found at Talpiyot.

Neither the provenance nor the age of the ossuaries is not in dispute. The boxes, never out of the control of professional archaeologists, are effectively self-dating, since the practice of re-interring the bones of the dead in limestone boxes a year after death was conducted by Jews in the Holy Land for a period of only 100 years. Prominent families stored the boxes in family tombs.

Moreover, all the inscriptions have been corroborated by some of the world's leading epigraphers, including Harvard's Frank Moore Cross.

The 'Jesus, son of Joseph' marking is considered rare; of thousands of inscriptions so far catalogued, only one other bone coffin contained the same construction.

No Christian tradition suggests that Jesus had a son, but the Gospel of John does refer to "the beloved disciple" who rests on Jesus' lap at the last supper.

And perhaps, says Mr. Jacobovici, "although this is pure speculation, when Jesus on the cross says 'mother, behold thy son,' he's not referring to himself or to his mother, but to his son, who is there with Mary Magdalene".

The book of Mark, he adds, also contains a passage that might allude to a son — a reference to a young man, wearing nothing but linen who follows Jesus after his arrest and, when guards try to apprehend him, slips out of his clothes and escapes naked.

"That's a very odd story," says Mr. Jacobovici. "There's no name is given for the young lad, but the gospel writer obviously thought it was important to tell it."

"None of us," maintains Dr. Tabor, "are gleefully presenting this as though we've trumped Christianity. If anything, it might help clarify and refine it a bit. Some people will immediately say this is sensationalism. I don't agree with that. I know enough about it to say this is a subject that deserves serious and continued investigation."

Indeed, it's likely that there will be sequel to The Lost Tomb of Jesus. While searching for the original Talpiyot cave, the filmmakers stumbled upon a second crypt, only 20 meters away that has never been explored by archaeologists. A miniature camera inserted into the tomb revealed three ossuaries.

magicfan39126

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#23 : February 25, 2007, 10:58:23 AM

If this is somehow proven, it's a huge deal. The alleged Son of God becomes "just" a great teacher
who couldn't over come death.

A) Most Christians already don't believe that parts of the Bible are literal (see: the ones that don't believe that the earth is only 6000 years old, the ones that don't follow the 'rules' that they deem too dated and unimportant). What's wrong another example of this? It certainly doesn't mean much, when you think about it. It's important within the frame story of Christianity but it means nothing idealogically. You don't have to believe any of the Bible's 'stories' to adhere to the broader principles of Christianity.

B) soul =/= body


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#24 : February 25, 2007, 11:32:54 AM

Extremely interesting.  I look forward to the results of a scientific investigation.  So many people have been killed in the names of the World's religions for centuries because of differing belief systems...It always made me wonder exactly what it was all supposed to be about...control? power? riches? Looking at a beautiful deep night sky also causes me to question my lack of being able to believe without reservation.

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#25 : February 25, 2007, 11:47:13 AM

If this is somehow proven, it's a huge deal. The alleged Son of God becomes "just" a great teacher
who couldn't over come death.

As much as alot of you don't believe in the Bible or anything that deals with Jesus, I don't believe in any of the corny or bogus stories that try to contradict all of that either.

So, if evidence shows up that contradicts your beliefs, you will hide your head in the sand and ignore it?


Kind of like how you did Joe when evidence was shown that black people commit more crime than white people based on their ratio in society? Yeah, looks like good ol' joe likes to spin pretty much anything to align with his own beliefs. You tree huggers are so predictable.



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#26 : February 25, 2007, 03:04:01 PM

If this is somehow proven, it's a huge deal. The alleged Son of God becomes "just" a great teacher
who couldn't over come death.

As much as alot of you don't believe in the Bible or anything that deals with Jesus, I don't believe in any of the corny or bogus stories that try to contradict all of that either.

So, if evidence shows up that contradicts your beliefs, you will hide your head in the sand and ignore it?


Kind of like how you did Joe when evidence was shown that black people commit more crime than white people based on their ratio in society? Yeah, looks like good ol' joe likes to spin pretty much anything to align with his own beliefs. You tree huggers are so predictable.
Joe isn't a tree hugger..



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#27 : February 25, 2007, 03:30:07 PM

There has been no SOLID evidence of UFO's and their existence ever, but yet Joe acts like he has actually gone aboard one and communicated with aliens. And then has the freakin nerve to knock me for believing in God and some of the things in the Bible. And sometimes you just know what you know that comes from your gut or your heart, but people who are scientific cannot comprehend anything like that and must see numbers and figures much like a robot does.  ::)

ufojoe

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#28 : February 25, 2007, 03:44:01 PM

You can bring up UFOs all you want. Doesn't change the facts in this case. Can't wait to hear the
press conference and doc.

dalbuc

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#29 : February 25, 2007, 03:45:24 PM

This is sort of like finding a tomb of George and Martha and blammo, you've got first president of the USA because no one else has those names.

Frankly, the fact that there are kids of the man in the tomb should disprove fairly easily to most believers that it isn't Jesus' tomb since he didn't have kids and there is no contemporary evidence that he did anyways.

I'm not sure what "DNA" they have unless someone is actually pulling off transubstantiation thing and you've got some blood. I'm sure they can prove it is a Jewish family and might even be able to get it in the same general timeframe.

Still, great hype.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.
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