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rayfsc07

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« #15 : February 26, 2007, 12:08:47 PM »

Every player in the draft has weaknesses and potential to be a bust.

It's not an exact science here.

Booker Reese

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« #16 : February 26, 2007, 12:15:50 PM »

psysum - you can trot all the numbers out you want about Reggie Ball. I live in the heart of ACC country - Reggie Ball was considered the biggest limiter of success on that team, and maybe the most dissappointing players in the conference year after year.  He's one of the most erratic QBs I can remember, and his lack of accuracy is legendary. There's a reason he's not getting a sniff at QB for the combine.

As for Johnson disappearing, when I'd watch GT play, you couldn't go 5 minutes without an announcer criticizing GT for using Johnson as a decoy. Johnson almost never had single coverage, and a lot of times Tech would simply go the other way with the ball. I remember one announcer, maybe Heirbstreet, pleading for GT to go to Johnson, saying "when he's doubled, it's like single coverage for other guys."

Every WR has some knocks, but I'd say he's easily the cleanest prospect in a long time. Fitzgerald might have been as clean on the hands, production, routes, but he doesn't have Calvin's physical traits.

I think Dalbuc hits upon potentially his only weakness - can Johnson run all the routes? I think that's something only deep film study will illuminate.

DanTurksGhost

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« #17 : February 26, 2007, 12:17:33 PM »

Booker:

Excellent post.

acacius

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« #18 : February 26, 2007, 12:18:14 PM »

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2007/adams_gaines

"Still learning how to recognize blocking schemes and can disappear for long stretches. Can get frustrated if held in check for a long period and will overcompensate on his rush."

It seems to be a not entirely uncommon problem.




leeroybuc93

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« #19 : February 26, 2007, 12:20:53 PM »

Looks like Reggie Ball out-performed Brady Quinn as a freshman...

Barely, and Ball played in more games. And Quinn's numbers as a freshman are just as pedestrian. The big difference is that Quinn got better and better while Ball remained pretty crummy. He had his best year last year and (no surprise) so did CJ.

So what you're saying is Calvin Johnson can't make a QB any better....

No.  He's saying Reggie Ball sucked and no one can help him.  If you were playing out there instead of Ball, Johnson wouldn't make you any better either because you'd be way in over your head.  Ball was a running back that they asked to throw the ball for some reason.

leeroybuc93

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« #20 : February 26, 2007, 12:28:31 PM »

psysum - you can trot all the numbers out you want about Reggie Ball. I live in the heart of ACC country - Reggie Ball was considered the biggest limiter of success on that team, and maybe the most dissappointing players in the conference year after year.  He's one of the most erratic QBs I can remember, and his lack of accuracy is legendary. There's a reason he's not getting a sniff at QB for the combine.

As for Johnson disappearing, when I'd watch GT play, you couldn't go 5 minutes without an announcer criticizing GT for using Johnson as a decoy. Johnson almost never had single coverage, and a lot of times Tech would simply go the other way with the ball. I remember one announcer, maybe Heirbstreet, pleading for GT to go to Johnson, saying "when he's doubled, it's like single coverage for other guys."

Every WR has some knocks, but I'd say he's easily the cleanest prospect in a long time. Fitzgerald might have been as clean on the hands, production, routes, but he doesn't have Calvin's physical traits.

I think Dalbuc hits upon potentially his only weakness - can Johnson run all the routes? I think that's something only deep film study will illuminate.

I've seen him play in person when he played here in Blacksburg.  He certainly didn't disappear in that game against the #1 D in the country.  A lot of his yards came on out patterns that he turned and broke.  All of this, mind you, was against bracket covereage or double underneat with the safety still bracketing.  In fact, GT had a huge 70 yard pass on the 1st play of the game because the entire team was covering CJ and left the other guy in 1 on 1 with no safety help.

BUCFAN4LIFE

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« #21 : February 26, 2007, 12:30:35 PM »

Dont be scared it's not your millions. CJ is a very good WR and has potential to be excellent. This system fits his talents. He can stretch  the field and also runs good routes and has very good hands. He is big enough to go over the middle and be a force and block like a bulldozer. As for not making Ball look better-- just look at some his catches he definitely can make a catch on poorly thrown balls. Last I checked WR's that can go up and catch and make truly acrobatic catches on poorly thrown balls do make their QB look better.


leeroybuc93

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« #22 : February 26, 2007, 12:37:42 PM »

Dont be scared it's not your millions. CJ is a very good WR and has potential to be excellent. This system fits his talents. He can stretch  the field and also runs good routes and has very good hands. He is big enough to go over the middle and be a force and block like a bulldozer. As for not making Ball look better-- just look at some his catches he definitely can make a catch on poorly thrown balls. Last I checked WR's that can go up and catch and make truly acrobatic catches on poorly thrown balls do make their QB look better.

Exactly!  You take away CJ and some of his ridiculous catches and Ball is a sub 40% passer.  Calvin can't make Ball suddenly throw the ball in the right places, all he can do is catch the crap that comes out of Ball's hand.

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« #23 : February 26, 2007, 01:33:51 PM »

Dont be scared it's not your millions. CJ is a very good WR and has potential to be excellent. This system fits his talents. He can stretch the field and also runs good routes and has very good hands. He is big enough to go over the middle and be a force and block like a bulldozer. As for not making Ball look better-- just look at some his catches he definitely can make a catch on poorly thrown balls. Last I checked WR's that can go up and catch and make truly acrobatic catches on poorly thrown balls do make their QB look better.

Then why was he a 51% passer his freshman year before CJ got there?

Exactly! You take away CJ and some of his ridiculous catches and Ball is a sub 40% passer. Calvin can't make Ball suddenly throw the ball in the right places, all he can do is catch the crap that comes out of Ball's hand.


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« #24 : February 26, 2007, 01:37:18 PM »

Then why was he a 51% passer his freshman year before CJ got there?

You sit there and act like 51% passing is good. 51% passing is nothing to be proud of. These players don't play in a vacuum.

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« #25 : February 26, 2007, 01:40:34 PM »

Then why was he a 51% passer his freshman year before CJ got there?

You sit there and act like 51% passing is good. 51% passing is nothing to be proud of. These players don't play in a vacuum.

When Simms had Roy W you could look at the game and see which games Roy W was playing and whihc ones he wasn't becuase Simms was a much, much worse player without Roy Williams in the lineup. Calvin never got dinged up to show that but it is an interesting question that before Calvin and after Calvin he was a very similar QB, Calvin didn't have the Roy W effect on Ball (assumes these stats are true and I haven't looked them up).

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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« #26 : February 26, 2007, 01:42:52 PM »

Dont be scared it's not your millions. CJ is a very good WR and has potential to be excellent. This system fits his talents. He can stretch the field and also runs good routes and has very good hands. He is big enough to go over the middle and be a force and block like a bulldozer. As for not making Ball look better-- just look at some his catches he definitely can make a catch on poorly thrown balls. Last I checked WR's that can go up and catch and make truly acrobatic catches on poorly thrown balls do make their QB look better.

Then why was he a 51% passer his freshman year before CJ got there?

Exactly! You take away CJ and some of his ridiculous catches and Ball is a sub 40% passer. Calvin can't make Ball suddenly throw the ball in the right places, all he can do is catch the crap that comes out of Ball's hand.

Ummm no.  He was a 51% passer because he sucked.  51% is terrible.  He was always in the 49% range after that so it's not like it's a huge drop off.  After his freshman year he got lazy, which anyone will tell you, and his mechanics went to crap.  But did you notice when CJ showed up his yards per attempt went way up?  That's what CJ can do.  If you aren't accurate he can't help that, but he can get you more yards out of your crap throws by catching more of them, and turning them into longer gains..

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« #27 : February 26, 2007, 01:48:58 PM »

I understand your iffy-ness on Calvin, psymun, and admire you backing up your points.  However, all I can say is that I am a hardcore GA Tech fan, and have followed both Reggie Ball and Calvin Johnson since their fresman years.  Reggie Ball's decrease in numbers have to do with his lack of character.  He failed out his senior year.  He single handedly lost the game against UGA (biggest rival) 3 years in a row.  He let all criticism get to him, and folded under pressure.

Oh and by the way, another thing you will have to take my word for, almost every time Reggie struggled, Calvin was thrown the ball a maximum of 3 times.

Bucs N Beers

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« #28 : February 26, 2007, 01:55:36 PM »

When you bring up the fact that CJ is a "vertical route" player only it brings another guy to mind. Randy Moss. But without the bad personality. I mean, if he can EXCEL with the vertical and be a little better than average on the other routes, similar to Moss, than is it really THAT bad? Simms' cannon arm would be perfect for CJ.



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« #29 : February 26, 2007, 02:25:39 PM »

Ok... Reggie Ball 2003 - His freshman year... Set Georgia Tech records for passing yards (1,996), pass completions (181) and total offense (2,380) by a freshman . . . Completed 52 percent of his passes with 10 touchdowns and 11 interceptions . . . Tech's second-leading rusher with 139 carries for 384 yards and three touchdowns . . . Named ACC Rookie of the Week five times during the season . . .

Next year... Calvin Johnson shows up...

Since then... His completion percentage goes DOWN... Wouldn't having a receiver like that make your QB better? At least that's what all of you are saying...

Ok... So it's the QBs fault... so what you're also saying is that Calvin Johnson's presence doesn't mean crap w/o a good QB...

What I am saying is every WR has his faults...there is no ONE perfect WR that catches everything and is getting 400 ypg.
Yes he has faults but name me one WR that came out of college without at least one knock on him.

Keyshawn Johnson was one of the bests we have ever had here. However he would get the case of drops now and then and would disappear especially when double teamed.

Calvin Johnson was the only potential threat at GT..they shut him down they win..However I doubt if we add him here he will be as covered as he was at GT
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