My Fear of Drafting Calvin Johnson (Pick Your Source)

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2007/adams_gaines

"Still learning how to recognize blocking schemes and can disappear for long stretches. Can get frustrated if held in check for a long period and will overcompensate on his rush."

It seems to be a not entirely uncommon problem.

I am sure put any player on a team where he is the only threat and we will see how much he can do

[BucitObones]

I would still draft him.

[Pick6]

no such thing as a flawless prospect, everybody has a few elements of their game that will need work, including the guys who play in Pro Bowls and wind up in the HOF

if you did similar research on all the top 5 guys, i think you could worry your way out of selecting any of them. he's potentially the best talent in the draft, but at some point it's up to the coaches to have confidence in themselves to see a "can't-miss" prospect the rest of the way through.

the things he lacks are coachable, the things he has plenty of can't be coached.

[dalbuc]

the things he lacks are coachable, the things he has plenty of can't be coached.

Old line but we've seen tons of guys who get drafted on the "You can't teach size and speed" that don't pan out. People talk about Calvin like he's the perfect WR when in fact his WR skills are not optimal and he might just be a vertical threat. You like deep speed but even the best one-trick pony can't save your offense.

[leeroybuc93]

the things he lacks are coachable, the things he has plenty of can't be coached.

Old line but we've seen tons of guys who get drafted on the "You can't teach size and speed" that don't pan out. People talk about Calvin like he's the perfect WR when in fact his WR skills are not optimal and he might just be a vertical threat. You like deep speed but even the best one-trick pony can't save your offense.

Again, he took numerous outs and slants a long way.  This whole "only a vertical threat" thing has been passed around so much that people are starting to believe it and I don't know why.

[dalbuc]

Again, he took numerous outs and slants a long way.  This whole "only a vertical threat" thing has been passed around so much that people are starting to believe it and I don't know why.

Because much like the Okoye, "I saw it" stuff the people who do this for a living don't seem to see it and that bothers me. Plenty of people "saw" BMW be a huge playmaker and be tall and always a threat in the red zone. Guys might have played 9 million miles off Calvin in college but NFL guys won't be as far off so there's gonna be a difference.

[Booker Reese]

the things he lacks are coachable, the things he has plenty of can't be coached.

Old line but we've seen tons of guys who get drafted on the "You can't teach size and speed" that don't pan out. People talk about Calvin like he's the perfect WR when in fact his WR skills are not optimal and he might just be a vertical threat. You like deep speed but even the best one-trick pony can't save your offense.

Yeah, that's an old cliche. But in CJ's case I don't think it's just speed and size - it's hands, body control, concentration, and maybe most importantly attitude. He comes across as very coachable. There are always things to worry about - especially routes. But keep in mind that most WRs struggle with route running early on - that's why the learning curve is longer and that's guys who pump up big numbers like Clayton as rookies are rare.

I'm not even sure CJ doesn't run routes well - that's something we seem to "think" might be a potential weakness. You seem to be fishing for flaws. I'll agree that route running might be one flaw, simply because we haven't heard paeans to his route-running like there were for Fitzgerald. But that doesn't necessarily mean he runs poor routes.

[Pick6]

the things he lacks are coachable, the things he has plenty of can't be coached.

Old line but we've seen tons of guys who get drafted on the "You can't teach size and speed" that don't pan out. People talk about Calvin like he's the perfect WR when in fact his WR skills are not optimal and he might just be a vertical threat. You like deep speed but even the best one-trick pony can't save your offense.

plenty of guys who support what you're saying, but most of those have an attitude problem or talent that's so prodigious it limits their coachability. even in that category, you could argue that randy moss is a similarly one-trick pony who's gotten a ton of mileage out of his one trick.

i'm not arguing that he's perfect, but what's been reported about his attitude and approach to the game (just like joe thomas) allows him to make the most of his skills and makes the "potential" argument much less dangerous than when applied to a mike williams or a whatsisname out in minny. i happen to think that the coaching staff and personnel at Georgia Tech are a world away from the NFL, and there's alot that a good coach and a solid NFL QB (who we will have at some point during CJ's career, even if not everyone agrees we have either this season) can do to maximize his game

i can't name a "perfect" NFL WR for the life of me, but there are plenty of "incomplete" WRs out there that were worth the #4 overall pick in hindsight.

[leeroybuc93]

Again, he took numerous outs and slants a long way. This whole "only a vertical threat" thing has been passed around so much that people are starting to believe it and I don't know why.

Because much like the Okoye, "I saw it" stuff the people who do this for a living don't seem to see it and that bothers me. Plenty of people "saw" BMW be a huge playmaker and be tall and always a threat in the red zone. Guys might have played 9 million miles off Calvin in college but NFL guys won't be as far off so there's gonna be a difference.

Do you have a link to a scouting report that says he's only a vertical threat?  I have never seen one.

[DanTurksGhost]

Do you have a link to a scouting report that says he's only a vertical threat?  I have never seen one.

Good one. This whole take on Johnson is enough to make one weary, isn't it LB?

[dalbuc]

i can't name a "perfect" NFL WR for the life of me, but there are plenty of "incomplete" WRs out there that were worth the #4 overall pick in hindsight.

Name 'em. Jerry Rice and......

Seriously, the two best WR's in terms of attitude and ability are Torry Holt (1999) and Marvin Harrison (1996)

In 1999 just looking R1 the best I can get Holt is 6th: McNabb, Edge, Cahmp Bailey, Chris McAllister, Javon Kearse all go above him, just looking at R1 types.

In 1996, I can get Marvin to #4 in a terrible drat: John Ogden, Ray Lewis, Simeon Rice and the guys after Marvin are Willie Anderson and Eddie George. This BTW was the year KJ went #1 overall.

Those are the best guys I can find and I can only get one of them to #4 and that's not a good draft class.

[dalbuc]

Do you have a link to a scouting report that says he's only a vertical threat?  I have never seen one.

At the top of this thread there are these funny looking lines in red. Click those.  There's a notable ommission of RAC ability mentioned and route running is the question mark.

[leeroybuc93]

Do you have a link to a scouting report that says he's only a vertical threat? I have never seen one.

At the top of this thread there are these funny looking lines in red. Click those. There's a notable ommission of RAC ability mentioned and route running is the question mark.

"Terrific load to bring down after the catch … Strong open-field runner who will drag defenders when fighting for extra yardage … Even though there is not a lot of shake in his hips and he is a bit of a long strider, he runs with the power needed to break tackles consistently"

That's from the very first one I clicked on.

[leeroybuc93]

Run After Catch:   - His combination of size, power and speed make him a YAC machine
                             - Catches the ball in stride
                             - Surprisingly elusive in the open field 

That's from nfldraftblitz.com

[DanTurksGhost]

LB: You appear to be wasting your time here. Some minds are made up, regardless of the supporting material or lack thereof.