Welcome, Guest
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: DL Workout Results « previous next »
Page: 1 ... 4 5 6 7

Boid Fink

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 54579
Offline
#75 : February 27, 2007, 02:59:54 PM

I think Branch is overrated. He's where he is because of the measurables he brings to the table. He definitely wasn't as productive as John Henderson (drafted #9) and maybe not even as good as Vince Wilfork (drafted #21).
He played on a top 3 run defending school, where he was considered the anchor. That speaks volumes to me...

And comparing guys who are factors in the NFL to guys who are in college is totally ridiculous.

It is like comping Calvin Johnson to Michael Clayton. As of now, Clayton is a better professional...

huh? Why is that ridiculous? I believe he was comparing John Henderson/Vince Wilfork in college versus Allan Branch in college. Comparing Calvin Johnson to Michael Clayton as prospects, CJ is easily superior, even if I knew nothing about Michael Clayton or dozed off after his great rookie year.
Got the college comps confused.

But Alan Branch was still an anchor at a top3 run stopping school.  How is this not getting it done?


watson

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 5177
Offline
#76 : February 27, 2007, 03:18:11 PM

Carriker won't see anything near round 2. He might be the top half of R1 now.
Dal,
After that 4.18 short shuttle he probably shot to the top of a lot of lists.  I know you are not high on drafting a player like him early, but with what he showed today and at the Sr Bowl, he may jump into the top 5.

Truths:
1.  Never have an argument with an idiot.  They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with their experience.
2.  For some it would be better if they remained silent and be thought a fool than to speak and erase all doubt.

watson

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 5177
Offline
#77 : February 27, 2007, 05:09:16 PM

Gonna agree with those who are saying Carricker is impressing - don't know about #4 overall - but from the looks of things he will not be a bad choice. Size and speed are a nice pair.
dbf,
I would be happy with Carriker at #4.  I know there are some on here who will say he is not a #4 talent, but with his showing at the Sr Bowl, the words that Monte said about him on his last radio interview after the Sr Bowl and how he has been testing at the combine I don't see how it would be too much of a stretch.

Truths:
1.  Never have an argument with an idiot.  They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with their experience.
2.  For some it would be better if they remained silent and be thought a fool than to speak and erase all doubt.

Skull and Bones

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 23371
Offline
#78 : February 27, 2007, 07:18:06 PM

I think Branch is overrated. He's where he is because of the measurables he brings to the table. He definitely wasn't as productive as John Henderson (drafted #9) and maybe not even as good as Vince Wilfork (drafted #21).
He played on a top 3 run defending school, where he was considered the anchor. That speaks volumes to me...

And comparing guys who are factors in the NFL to guys who are in college is totally ridiculous.

It is like comping Calvin Johnson to Michael Clayton. As of now, Clayton is a better professional...

huh? Why is that ridiculous? I believe he was comparing John Henderson/Vince Wilfork in college versus Allan Branch in college. Comparing Calvin Johnson to Michael Clayton as prospects, CJ is easily superior, even if I knew nothing about Michael Clayton or dozed off after his great rookie year.
Got the college comps confused.

But Alan Branch was still an anchor at a top3 run stopping school. How is this not getting it done?

I also don't think he was asked to be a playmaker in their scheme, hence the low sacks/tackle totals. 


dalbuc

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 21583
Offline
#79 : February 27, 2007, 07:20:12 PM

Carriker won't see anything near round 2. He might be the top half of R1 now.
Dal,
After that 4.18 short shuttle he probably shot to the top of a lot of lists.  I know you are not high on drafting a player like him early, but with what he showed today and at the Sr Bowl, he may jump into the top 5.

Well he won't jump to us but could a team like AZ think he's a stud prospect and take him, maybe. Myabe a team like WAs is more realistic. I like the prospect but I think where we are there are gonna be better players.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

watson

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 5177
Offline
#80 : February 27, 2007, 07:39:10 PM

Carriker won't see anything near round 2. He might be the top half of R1 now.
Dal,
After that 4.18 short shuttle he probably shot to the top of a lot of lists. I know you are not high on drafting a player like him early, but with what he showed today and at the Sr Bowl, he may jump into the top 5.

Well he won't jump to us but could a team like AZ think he's a stud prospect and take him, maybe. Myabe a team like WAs is more realistic. I like the prospect but I think where we are there are gonna be better players.
Dal,
You are probably right, but I'm not going to be surprised to see him as the selection.  From what Monte said on the radio the reason he didn't show more pass rush and disruption at Neb was their defense calls for the DLmen to basically hold the point of attack and not go charging into the backfield.  The other thing that makes me think it is a possibility was the statement about wanting to get bigger on the DL.   The other thing that has me wondering is BAs and JGs statements about QB play and the D getting after the QB.  With FA basically a non-issue in regards to obtaining DLs this year, it would just seem to be a better fit for what they want to do.  Is CJ seen as a better prospect.....he definitely is.....but I don't think he will be there when the Bucs make their selection.  Someone is going to take him before #4......either Oak or Cle or a team that has traded for with one of the top 3. 

Truths:
1.  Never have an argument with an idiot.  They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with their experience.
2.  For some it would be better if they remained silent and be thought a fool than to speak and erase all doubt.

dalbuc

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 21583
Offline
#81 : February 27, 2007, 08:23:54 PM

Dal,
You are probably right, but I'm not going to be surprised to see him as the selection.  From what Monte said on the radio the reason he didn't show more pass rush and disruption at Neb was their defense calls for the DLmen to basically hold the point of attack and not go charging into the backfield. 

He's a monster, there's no doubt about it. I like Adams more than Carriker because he's shown the pass rush and disruption and it isn't a matter of thinking he can do it. I can't argue DL isn't a need, I'm a big cheerleader on that bandwagon I'm just not sure Carriker has risen from early R2 type to high R1 type. That's too much of a rise in regard for me to be comfy with.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

RascalBuc

**
Rookie

Posts : 52
Offline
#82 : February 27, 2007, 10:14:01 PM

I REALLY like Anthony Spencer with our 2A pick...if he's there we have to take him.  Joe Thomas, Ryan Harris, & Levi Brown said he was the best DE at the combine.

Great article on Spencer.

http://www.heraldstandard.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17895985&BRD=2280&PAG=461&dept_id=468632&rfi=6

dbtb135

*
Practice Squad

Posts : 0
Offline
#83 : February 27, 2007, 11:02:42 PM

Simeon is listed at 6'5" 270. Adams is 6' 4" 6/8, hardly that much shorter.

Adams is a great player nad he looked great in his workouts but if the idea is to get bigger on DL, he's not a good fit.

I guess we'll have to wait until Anderson is able workout to see how they compare.

Why would you pigeonhole a guy who's 6'4 658 into JUST a 3-4 OLB? It doesn't make sense at all. If a 4-3 team liked him enough, there's no reason he couldn't play DE for them.

Size shouldn't matter that much. The idea for us shouldn't be to get bigger, it should be to get more talented on the DL. And a pass rush, Adam's specialty, has never hurt this type of defense. As a matter of fact, quite the opposite if you didn't know.

Guys with his size have not only been able to play DE consistently, but they've been able to play it well. From the obvious talents like Rice, Kearse, Terrell Suggs, and Jason Taylor to the lesser knowns like Mark Anderson, Leonard Little, Osi Umenyiora, Chike Okeafor, Aaron Shobel, etc. Shobel and Anderson had huge years, and Little has been as consistent an impact DE as you'll find since 2000. None of these guys have even 10 lbs on Adams who obviously hasn't maxed out his frame.

If this team had a chance at a guy like Demarcus Ware, do you think they would pass because he's "not big enough"? Ware being the same height and weighing 1 less pound.

Boid Fink

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 54579
Offline
#84 : February 27, 2007, 11:04:42 PM

Simeon is listed at 6'5" 270. Adams is 6' 4" 6/8, hardly that much shorter.

Adams is a great player nad he looked great in his workouts but if the idea is to get bigger on DL, he's not a good fit.

I guess we'll have to wait until Anderson is able workout to see how they compare.

Why would you pigeonhole a guy who's 6'4 658 into JUST a 3-4 OLB? It doesn't make sense at all. If a 4-3 team liked him enough, there's no reason he couldn't play DE for them.

Size shouldn't matter that much. The idea for us shouldn't be to get bigger, it should be to get more talented on the DL. And a pass rush, Adam's specialty, has never hurt this type of defense. As a matter of fact, quite the opposite if you didn't know.

Guys with his size have not only been able to play DE consistently, but they've been able to play it well. From the obvious talents like Rice, Kearse, Terrell Suggs, and Jason Taylor to the lesser knowns like Mark Anderson, Leonard Little, Osi Umenyiora, Chike Okeafor, Aaron Shobel, etc. Shobel and Anderson had huge years, and Little has been as consistent an impact DE as you'll find since 2000. None of these guys have even 10 lbs on Adams who obviously hasn't maxed out his frame.

If this team had a chance at a guy like Demarcus Ware, do you think they would pass because he's "not big enough"? Ware being the same height and weighing 1 less pound.
I am also on your committee, DBTB.


dbtb135

*
Practice Squad

Posts : 0
Offline
#85 : February 27, 2007, 11:12:50 PM

I am also on your committee, DBTB.

This is good to hear, a lot of people are against him and I'm not sure why. With CJ and Thomas probably gone at 4 with their awe-inspiring workouts, and a guy sitting there who looks like a replacement for the ancient Simeon Rice and a hell of a pass rusher for a team who's near the bottom of the league in sacks, yet relies heavily on it for the scheme to work. But when I put it that way, I guess I can see why some people don't think he's a good fit at all for this team.

Boid Fink

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 54579
Offline
#86 : February 27, 2007, 11:28:12 PM

I am also on your committee, DBTB.

This is good to hear, a lot of people are against him and I'm not sure why. With CJ and Thomas probably gone at 4 with their awe-inspiring workouts, and a guy sitting there who looks like a replacement for the ancient Simeon Rice and a hell of a pass rusher for a team who's near the bottom of the league in sacks, yet relies heavily on it for the scheme to work. But when I put it that way, I guess I can see why some people don't think he's a good fit at all for this team.
I sense extreme sarcasm in this post...

I agree.  I am wondering what the hell is wrong with all these people wanting a top end WR like that, when the defense is getting so old, and the offense has a very young offensive corp.  And the Tampa 2 is ENTIRELY predicated on having front four pressure, which was entirely lacking.  The D-line looks a helluva lot worse than the WR corp does right now.  And the O-line is "meh", enough so that the QB has to rely on max protect schemes all the time, and that just stinks.

There are far more pressing needs than to draft a few highlight reel catches...

Gaines would make this defense have the best DE tandem in all the NFL, IMO.  And that is the difference in three, four games at least...


CeriousBuc

*
Practice Squad

Posts : 0
Offline
#87 : February 28, 2007, 08:36:23 AM

Simeon is listed at 6'5" 270. Adams is 6' 4" 6/8, hardly that much shorter.

Adams is a great player nad he looked great in his workouts but if the idea is to get bigger on DL, he's not a good fit.

I guess we'll have to wait until Anderson is able workout to see how they compare.

You know what? You're the second poster I've seen say this, MJS was the other. Tell me, when has Kiffen come out and said that they were changing their scheme and going with bigger defensive linemen? I don't see how that can be the case when some of their top FA targets were DEs in the same weight range. Sure, it'd be great to find a freak of nature who was both huge and lightning quick like Peppers. But the object would still be to add talent to the DL, not get bigger. Gaines would give us an impact with his speed from day one.

Booker Reese

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 8179
Offline
#88 : February 28, 2007, 11:52:56 AM

Simeon is listed at 6'5" 270. Adams is 6' 4" 6/8, hardly that much shorter.

Adams is a great player nad he looked great in his workouts but if the idea is to get bigger on DL, he's not a good fit.

I guess we'll have to wait until Anderson is able workout to see how they compare.

You know what? You're the second poster I've seen say this, MJS was the other. Tell me, when has Kiffen come out and said that they were changing their scheme and going with bigger defensive linemen? I don't see how that can be the case when some of their top FA targets were DEs in the same weight range. Sure, it'd be great to find a freak of nature who was both huge and lightning quick like Peppers. But the object would still be to add talent to the DL, not get bigger. Gaines would give us an impact with his speed from day one.

Cerious, you need to become an insider to find the answer to your question.

But I agree - it's nice to add size, but it's got to be talent first. Plus, there are 3 other spots to add size. The RDE is all about getting to the QB fast - there aren't a lot of big RDEs.

I was a Gaines Adams guy from the day the season ended, and while I'll admit to having pushed him behind JT and CJ, I'm not going to shed any tears if Adams is the guy. I think he can make as big an impact as anybody we could draft in the first round.


CeriousBuc

*
Practice Squad

Posts : 0
Offline
#89 : February 28, 2007, 11:58:42 AM

Simeon is listed at 6'5" 270. Adams is 6' 4" 6/8, hardly that much shorter.

Adams is a great player nad he looked great in his workouts but if the idea is to get bigger on DL, he's not a good fit.

I guess we'll have to wait until Anderson is able workout to see how they compare.

You know what? You're the second poster I've seen say this, MJS was the other. Tell me, when has Kiffen come out and said that they were changing their scheme and going with bigger defensive linemen? I don't see how that can be the case when some of their top FA targets were DEs in the same weight range. Sure, it'd be great to find a freak of nature who was both huge and lightning quick like Peppers. But the object would still be to add talent to the DL, not get bigger. Gaines would give us an impact with his speed from day one.

Cerious, you need to become an insider to find the answer to your question.

But I agree - it's nice to add size, but it's got to be talent first. Plus, there are 3 other spots to add size. The RDE is all about getting to the QB fast - there aren't a lot of big RDEs.

I was a Gaines Adams guy from the day the season ended, and while I'll admit to having pushed him behind JT and CJ, I'm not going to shed any tears if Adams is the guy. I think he can make as big an impact as anybody we could draft in the first round.



I am an Insider, but I still have to take what I read with a grain of salt.
Page: 1 ... 4 5 6 7
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: DL Workout Results « previous next »
:

Hide Tools Show Tools