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SunnyD

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#15 : February 27, 2007, 10:30:27 PM

Did you hear Larry Brackins just stroke it rich? He is already promised 30 million a year for Tampa next year.
Our WR core next year is going to be
1. Larry Barckins 6'4 runs a 4.20 flat
2. Michael Clayton 6'4 runs a 10.10 flat
3. Joey Galloway 6'0 runs a 4.12 flat
4. Maurice Stovall 6'5 runs a 9.21 flat
those are some weopons huh?

Are you comparing Trannon to Brackins?...Brackins played community ball for 2 years...Trannon played D1 big 10 Ball for four years.

wc24

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#16 : February 27, 2007, 11:44:04 PM

I think Anthony Gonzalez will surprise a few poeple and actually develop into a pretty good NFL WR.

I disagree on AG. I think he disapeared way too often and fed off of Ginn drawing too much attention.

AG may be a good #3 option in the NFL but for how high he is projected to go I would shy away from that.

I've seen this theory put forth on Gonzalez and I think it's a misguided opinion. The only game Gonzalez disappeared in was the bowl game in which the entire team, including the guy charged with throwing the ball, disappeared.

By the same logic Calvin Johnson was shutdown vs. Clemson. Maybe he disappears vs. good defenses. I don't think that's the case but let's be consistent.

Gonzalez has a real good chance to be a very good receiver in the NFL. He runs good routes, is quick out of breaks, has good speed and will go get the ball. If the Bucs didn't get CJ in the first round and depending on who they did draft at #4 I wouldn't be disappointed with Gonzalez as a second rounder.



Youare incorrect sir.  He disappeared in numerous games this year, typically when he faced any team with a decent defense. 

I did this breakdown in another thread:

Quote
He had TWO 100+ yard games this year.  142 against Texas, who boasted the Nations 99th ranked pass defense out of 119 teams.  That sure gets me drooling.  His other was 118 against Michigan State, and their powerhouse 97th ranked Pass defense.


His other "big" games were 77 yards against Iowa and their 77th rated D, 69 yards vs. Indiana and their 93rd, and perhaps his best of 85 yards vs. Cincinnati and their 58th rated D.

He had 6 games with 34 or less yards.  8 games 53 or less. And this was with the Heisman trophy QB throwing to him all year?  I don't believe Ginn was getting EVERY ball, so why did this guy not produce more?  Sorry if I want my #2 WR to show up a bit more than 2-3 games.

Look at his games against better pass defenses.  Florida, 2 catches 11 yards.  Illinois (31st D) 2 catches, 18 yards.  Notice those 2 games 1 they lost and the other barely won 17-10.  Shouldn't those be the games he needs to show up?  Penn State, 2 for 16 yards. 

Looks to me like he showed up in a lot less than the bowl game. 

And comparing him to CJ?  LOL on 2 fronts.  #1, AG is nowhere near the player CJ is, nowhere.  #2, CJ had a pee wee QB throwing to him, and AG had the Heisman winner. 

Come on man, at least if you are going to make a statement liek that have some facts to back it up.


Couple of things...

1. he had 7 less catches than Ginn who was OSU's deep threat and Gonzalez averaged more YPC.  That wouldn't indicate disappearing.

2. In the games vs. the other teams it seems like the problem was at least as much the Heisman trophy winners as the receivers. Penn State Ginn caught 2 for less yardage than Gonzalez. Illinois Ginn caught 5 for 26 yards while Gonzalez at least averaged 9 yards per catch in that game. In those games Smith completed 12 and 13 total passes. So I'm not sure why this seems to be either receivers problem. Against Florida Smith was abysmal.

3. I didn't compare Gonzalez to Calvin Johnson. What I posted was that we need to be consistent when assessing the players.

My assessment on Gonzalez is not limited to a few games when it may or may not have been equally the fault of his QB in not getting the ball to him or his running mate Ginn. From my observation Gonzalez is the type of receiver who will be successful in the NFL.


rayfsc07

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#17 : February 28, 2007, 12:13:46 AM

I think Anthony Gonzalez will surprise a few poeple and actually develop into a pretty good NFL WR.

I disagree on AG. I think he disapeared way too often and fed off of Ginn drawing too much attention.

AG may be a good #3 option in the NFL but for how high he is projected to go I would shy away from that.

I've seen this theory put forth on Gonzalez and I think it's a misguided opinion. The only game Gonzalez disappeared in was the bowl game in which the entire team, including the guy charged with throwing the ball, disappeared.

By the same logic Calvin Johnson was shutdown vs. Clemson. Maybe he disappears vs. good defenses. I don't think that's the case but let's be consistent.

Gonzalez has a real good chance to be a very good receiver in the NFL. He runs good routes, is quick out of breaks, has good speed and will go get the ball. If the Bucs didn't get CJ in the first round and depending on who they did draft at #4 I wouldn't be disappointed with Gonzalez as a second rounder.



Youare incorrect sir. He disappeared in numerous games this year, typically when he faced any team with a decent defense.

I did this breakdown in another thread:

Quote
He had TWO 100+ yard games this year. 142 against Texas, who boasted the Nations 99th ranked pass defense out of 119 teams. That sure gets me drooling. His other was 118 against Michigan State, and their powerhouse 97th ranked Pass defense.


His other "big" games were 77 yards against Iowa and their 77th rated D, 69 yards vs. Indiana and their 93rd, and perhaps his best of 85 yards vs. Cincinnati and their 58th rated D.

He had 6 games with 34 or less yards. 8 games 53 or less. And this was with the Heisman trophy QB throwing to him all year? I don't believe Ginn was getting EVERY ball, so why did this guy not produce more? Sorry if I want my #2 WR to show up a bit more than 2-3 games.

Look at his games against better pass defenses. Florida, 2 catches 11 yards. Illinois (31st D) 2 catches, 18 yards. Notice those 2 games 1 they lost and the other barely won 17-10. Shouldn't those be the games he needs to show up? Penn State, 2 for 16 yards.

Looks to me like he showed up in a lot less than the bowl game.

And comparing him to CJ? LOL on 2 fronts. #1, AG is nowhere near the player CJ is, nowhere. #2, CJ had a pee wee QB throwing to him, and AG had the Heisman winner.

Come on man, at least if you are going to make a statement liek that have some facts to back it up.


Couple of things...

1. he had 7 less catches than Ginn who was OSU's deep threat and Gonzalez averaged more YPC. That wouldn't indicate disappearing.

2. In the games vs. the other teams it seems like the problem was at least as much the Heisman trophy winners as the receivers. Penn State Ginn caught 2 for less yardage than Gonzalez. Illinois Ginn caught 5 for 26 yards while Gonzalez at least averaged 9 yards per catch in that game. In those games Smith completed 12 and 13 total passes. So I'm not sure why this seems to be either receivers problem. Against Florida Smith was abysmal.

3. I didn't compare Gonzalez to Calvin Johnson. What I posted was that we need to be consistent when assessing the players.

My assessment on Gonzalez is not limited to a few games when it may or may not have been equally the fault of his QB in not getting the ball to him or his running mate Ginn. From my observation Gonzalez is the type of receiver who will be successful in the NFL.



I think he'll be successfull too.....as a #3 WR and so long as he has good WR to take the defense away from him.  I'm just not sure that's the type of WR you want to spend a high 2nd round pick on.  Maybe you do, but I don't.

My assessment isn't on a few games either.  It is on the half of his games where he didn't show up at all, and 2/3 where he couldn't break 50 yards.  I don't think Smith won a Heisman based on 4 games, so something tells me it isn't all on Smith either. 

And LOL, Gonzalez "at least everaged 9 yards per catch" against Illinois?? 2 balls for 18 yards, wow, congrats, we using that as an accomplishment?  Your boy had 31 yards vs. BOWLING GREEN, and 30 vs. Minnesota.  He had 2 big games against 2 of the worst pass defenses in CFB, congrats to him.  Other than that he had a bunch of poor to mediocre games. 

I do think he'll be better in the NFL than Ginn, who I see as the next Peter Warrick.

wc24

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#18 : February 28, 2007, 12:33:15 AM

I think Anthony Gonzalez will surprise a few poeple and actually develop into a pretty good NFL WR.

I disagree on AG. I think he disapeared way too often and fed off of Ginn drawing too much attention.

AG may be a good #3 option in the NFL but for how high he is projected to go I would shy away from that.

I've seen this theory put forth on Gonzalez and I think it's a misguided opinion. The only game Gonzalez disappeared in was the bowl game in which the entire team, including the guy charged with throwing the ball, disappeared.

By the same logic Calvin Johnson was shutdown vs. Clemson. Maybe he disappears vs. good defenses. I don't think that's the case but let's be consistent.

Gonzalez has a real good chance to be a very good receiver in the NFL. He runs good routes, is quick out of breaks, has good speed and will go get the ball. If the Bucs didn't get CJ in the first round and depending on who they did draft at #4 I wouldn't be disappointed with Gonzalez as a second rounder.



Youare incorrect sir. He disappeared in numerous games this year, typically when he faced any team with a decent defense.

I did this breakdown in another thread:

Quote
He had TWO 100+ yard games this year. 142 against Texas, who boasted the Nations 99th ranked pass defense out of 119 teams. That sure gets me drooling. His other was 118 against Michigan State, and their powerhouse 97th ranked Pass defense.


His other "big" games were 77 yards against Iowa and their 77th rated D, 69 yards vs. Indiana and their 93rd, and perhaps his best of 85 yards vs. Cincinnati and their 58th rated D.

He had 6 games with 34 or less yards. 8 games 53 or less. And this was with the Heisman trophy QB throwing to him all year? I don't believe Ginn was getting EVERY ball, so why did this guy not produce more? Sorry if I want my #2 WR to show up a bit more than 2-3 games.

Look at his games against better pass defenses. Florida, 2 catches 11 yards. Illinois (31st D) 2 catches, 18 yards. Notice those 2 games 1 they lost and the other barely won 17-10. Shouldn't those be the games he needs to show up? Penn State, 2 for 16 yards.

Looks to me like he showed up in a lot less than the bowl game.

And comparing him to CJ? LOL on 2 fronts. #1, AG is nowhere near the player CJ is, nowhere. #2, CJ had a pee wee QB throwing to him, and AG had the Heisman winner.

Come on man, at least if you are going to make a statement liek that have some facts to back it up.


Couple of things...

1. he had 7 less catches than Ginn who was OSU's deep threat and Gonzalez averaged more YPC. That wouldn't indicate disappearing.

2. In the games vs. the other teams it seems like the problem was at least as much the Heisman trophy winners as the receivers. Penn State Ginn caught 2 for less yardage than Gonzalez. Illinois Ginn caught 5 for 26 yards while Gonzalez at least averaged 9 yards per catch in that game. In those games Smith completed 12 and 13 total passes. So I'm not sure why this seems to be either receivers problem. Against Florida Smith was abysmal.

3. I didn't compare Gonzalez to Calvin Johnson. What I posted was that we need to be consistent when assessing the players.

My assessment on Gonzalez is not limited to a few games when it may or may not have been equally the fault of his QB in not getting the ball to him or his running mate Ginn. From my observation Gonzalez is the type of receiver who will be successful in the NFL.



I think he'll be successfull too.....as a #3 WR and so long as he has good WR to take the defense away from him.  I'm just not sure that's the type of WR you want to spend a high 2nd round pick on.  Maybe you do, but I don't.

My assessment isn't on a few games either.  It is on the half of his games where he didn't show up at all, and 2/3 where he couldn't break 50 yards.  I don't think Smith won a Heisman based on 4 games, so something tells me it isn't all on Smith either. 

And LOL, Gonzalez "at least everaged 9 yards per catch" against Illinois?? 2 balls for 18 yards, wow, congrats, we using that as an accomplishment?  Your boy had 31 yards vs. BOWLING GREEN, and 30 vs. Minnesota.  He had 2 big games against 2 of the worst pass defenses in CFB, congrats to him.  Other than that he had a bunch of poor to mediocre games. 

I do think he'll be better in the NFL than Ginn, who I see as the next Peter Warrick.

In the midst of your "LOL"ing you fail to take the fact nobody else on the team was able to step up vs. the better teams either at WR or QB. That should lend some credence that it was a combination of factors which slowed Gonzalez (and Ginn) down.

Gonzalez has a good shot to be an excellent pro receiver.

Boid Fink

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#19 : February 28, 2007, 12:35:55 AM

With all this ripping of Gonzo, one would also be sure to note the losing of Quinn in big games...




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#20 : February 28, 2007, 12:39:32 AM

Gonzalez has a good shot to be an excellent pro receiver.

Pre-combine people doubted his spped, but he ran a 4.44, which is pretty good.  So basically his only real downside isn't a concern anymore.  His stock will rise and he will probably be drafted before the mid-2nd round.


Pros: He is a phenomenal route runner and can catch with some of the best NCAA Wide Recievers. He is someone who is dedicated towards improving.

Cons: Speed can be somewhat of an issue for him and he isnt used to seeing much action seeing how Ted Ginn Jr. was #1 for the buckeyes last year.


Boid Fink

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#21 : February 28, 2007, 12:42:54 AM

Gonzalez has a good shot to be an excellent pro receiver.

Pre-combine people doubted his spped, but he ran a 4.44, which is pretty good.  So basically his only real downside isn't a concern anymore.  His stock will rise and he will probably be drafted before the mid-2nd round.


Pros: He is a phenomenal route runner and can catch with some of the best NCAA Wide Recievers. He is someone who is dedicated towards improving.

Cons: Speed can be somewhat of an issue for him and he isnt used to seeing much action seeing how Ted Ginn Jr. was #1 for the buckeyes last year.



I would not mind seeing Gonzo as a Buc.  But not for a second rounder.  Ah hell nah.


rayfsc07

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#22 : February 28, 2007, 12:46:48 AM

I think Anthony Gonzalez will surprise a few poeple and actually develop into a pretty good NFL WR.

I disagree on AG. I think he disapeared way too often and fed off of Ginn drawing too much attention.

AG may be a good #3 option in the NFL but for how high he is projected to go I would shy away from that.

I've seen this theory put forth on Gonzalez and I think it's a misguided opinion. The only game Gonzalez disappeared in was the bowl game in which the entire team, including the guy charged with throwing the ball, disappeared.

By the same logic Calvin Johnson was shutdown vs. Clemson. Maybe he disappears vs. good defenses. I don't think that's the case but let's be consistent.

Gonzalez has a real good chance to be a very good receiver in the NFL. He runs good routes, is quick out of breaks, has good speed and will go get the ball. If the Bucs didn't get CJ in the first round and depending on who they did draft at #4 I wouldn't be disappointed with Gonzalez as a second rounder.



Youare incorrect sir. He disappeared in numerous games this year, typically when he faced any team with a decent defense.

I did this breakdown in another thread:

Quote
He had TWO 100+ yard games this year. 142 against Texas, who boasted the Nations 99th ranked pass defense out of 119 teams. That sure gets me drooling. His other was 118 against Michigan State, and their powerhouse 97th ranked Pass defense.


His other "big" games were 77 yards against Iowa and their 77th rated D, 69 yards vs. Indiana and their 93rd, and perhaps his best of 85 yards vs. Cincinnati and their 58th rated D.

He had 6 games with 34 or less yards. 8 games 53 or less. And this was with the Heisman trophy QB throwing to him all year? I don't believe Ginn was getting EVERY ball, so why did this guy not produce more? Sorry if I want my #2 WR to show up a bit more than 2-3 games.

Look at his games against better pass defenses. Florida, 2 catches 11 yards. Illinois (31st D) 2 catches, 18 yards. Notice those 2 games 1 they lost and the other barely won 17-10. Shouldn't those be the games he needs to show up? Penn State, 2 for 16 yards.

Looks to me like he showed up in a lot less than the bowl game.

And comparing him to CJ? LOL on 2 fronts. #1, AG is nowhere near the player CJ is, nowhere. #2, CJ had a pee wee QB throwing to him, and AG had the Heisman winner.

Come on man, at least if you are going to make a statement liek that have some facts to back it up.


Couple of things...

1. he had 7 less catches than Ginn who was OSU's deep threat and Gonzalez averaged more YPC. That wouldn't indicate disappearing.

2. In the games vs. the other teams it seems like the problem was at least as much the Heisman trophy winners as the receivers. Penn State Ginn caught 2 for less yardage than Gonzalez. Illinois Ginn caught 5 for 26 yards while Gonzalez at least averaged 9 yards per catch in that game. In those games Smith completed 12 and 13 total passes. So I'm not sure why this seems to be either receivers problem. Against Florida Smith was abysmal.

3. I didn't compare Gonzalez to Calvin Johnson. What I posted was that we need to be consistent when assessing the players.

My assessment on Gonzalez is not limited to a few games when it may or may not have been equally the fault of his QB in not getting the ball to him or his running mate Ginn. From my observation Gonzalez is the type of receiver who will be successful in the NFL.



I think he'll be successfull too.....as a #3 WR and so long as he has good WR to take the defense away from him. I'm just not sure that's the type of WR you want to spend a high 2nd round pick on. Maybe you do, but I don't.

My assessment isn't on a few games either. It is on the half of his games where he didn't show up at all, and 2/3 where he couldn't break 50 yards. I don't think Smith won a Heisman based on 4 games, so something tells me it isn't all on Smith either.

And LOL, Gonzalez "at least everaged 9 yards per catch" against Illinois?? 2 balls for 18 yards, wow, congrats, we using that as an accomplishment? Your boy had 31 yards vs. BOWLING GREEN, and 30 vs. Minnesota. He had 2 big games against 2 of the worst pass defenses in CFB, congrats to him. Other than that he had a bunch of poor to mediocre games.

I do think he'll be better in the NFL than Ginn, who I see as the next Peter Warrick.

In the midst of your "LOL"ing you fail to take the fact nobody else on the team was able to step up vs. the better teams either at WR or QB. That should lend some credence that it was a combination of factors which slowed Gonzalez (and Ginn) down.

Gonzalez has a good shot to be an excellent pro receiver.

Ok, get past the good teams how do you explain BOWLING GREEN, or MINNESOTA?  

The guy just doesn't show up consistently, I don't care who the opponent is.  He had 2 great games out of 13, maybe 2 more good games, maybe 2 mediocre,  3 poor and 4 crappy.  Some of that is being generous as well.  You going to blame all of that on everyone else?  WHen does he take accountability?  Isn't it his job to get open?  Or is that Smith's fault?  I don't think Smith was inaccurate in college.  Ginn wasn't getting everything.  The times Ginn was out Gonzalez was nowhere to be found.  

That's not a guy I want to take with a high 2nd.  You shoudl get a #1 or #2 type solid WR with that pick.  I am not convinced he has that ability.  He didn't show it in college anyway.  

Yes, he does have a shot to be a good NFL receiver, a #3 NFL WR.  

rayfsc07

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#23 : February 28, 2007, 12:48:53 AM

Gonzalez has a good shot to be an excellent pro receiver.

Pre-combine people doubted his spped, but he ran a 4.44, which is pretty good. So basically his only real downside isn't a concern anymore. His stock will rise and he will probably be drafted before the mid-2nd round.


Pros: He is a phenomenal route runner and can catch with some of the best NCAA Wide Recievers. He is someone who is dedicated towards improving.

Cons: Speed can be somewhat of an issue for him and he isnt used to seeing much action seeing how Ted Ginn Jr. was #1 for the buckeyes last year.



I would not mind seeing Gonzo as a Buc. But not for a second rounder. Ah hell nah.


And that is my point.  I don't think he is a BAD WR.  I just think he isn't the type of guy you spend a high 2nd or even a 2nd on.  I think he can be successful in the NFL, as a #3 option or MAYBE a #2 if he gets in a situation like Price in Buffalo where Moulds hogged the attention in his heyday and Price was golden. Then Price left and struggled to ctach on as "the guy."  He reminds me a lot of Price actually.....and is Price even playing in the league anymore?
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