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Caveat Emperor

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#30 : November 24, 2009, 01:38:41 PM

I think Rah has the potential to be a solid HC...but he needs to be better organized. I am sure he understands this.

The NFL is a fairly unforgiving place -- even for people who know what they're doing or have succeeded in the past. This season is a punt, and Raheem was exposed as "not ready for primetime."

Knowing that, the key will be how Raheem responds the rest of the way out and into the upcoming off-season. I don't expect the team to make a move prior to a new CBA being put into place, so Raheem will get a chance to right the ship. If he's as bright as I think he is, he'll learn a great deal from this season's failures.

If not, we'll jettison him after the CBA is signed -- and trust me, there will be plenty of good HC candidates looking for work at that time.

Bottom line, though, is that if you're really a Bucs fan, you should be rooting for Raheem to figure this thing out -- because him learning and growing into the job for next year solves a ton of problems and is the best possible thing for the long-term growth of the franchise.

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#31 : November 24, 2009, 01:55:37 PM


Dude all I'm saying is you might have had higher expectations, but they couldn't have been much higher than a losing season.  It was inevitable and WE ALL knew it...Even Chazmoney...LOL

My point is why go through the same uproar every week?  Why get all upset over again.  For some of the negative people on this board you'd think it's challange them to find something positive something to hold onto.  I'm, personally, sick of the attack on Rah.  I totally believe 80% to 90% of the things said about him are just mean, nasty, and wrong.  That doesn't include Java's thoughts.  Same goes with Dom.  I honestly believe the Glazers have screwed this whole thing up and those boys are dangling trying to do the best they can to get it right.  Most of you act as though he was supposed to come in here and just have all the answers and if he did and they were still 1-9 you'd still be on him cuz they fired Gru to get to him...

It's just sad to me that the whole outrage is even going on still at this point in the season.  It's not like we don't know EVERYBODY's stance on where we are, were, and should be. Continual expression of it just tends to get old.  You hate the Bucs?  You tired of what's going on?  Find someone you do like and go post nice nice with them.  In the mean time, I'll hang with Garv, Uncle Stan, Lady Fan, Dbuc, Hate, heck even Dalbuc cuz I know no matter how bad it gets those guys and gals still love the Bucs...

Honestly, I didn't have higher expectations. I totally expected a step back - hell five steps back this season. I was prepared for it and knew it was coming.

What I have a problem with is what was illustrated in the article - the wrong choices made by the Brain Trust (or the Glazers if you choose to believe Talib25).  Every step of the way, they've made the wrong decision (with the possible exception being Freeman).

Every crucial choice - wrong. From the coordinators to the quarterback.

Personally, I gave Raheem all the backing in the world - you saw me fighting for him on a weekly basis after he was hired. The problem is, I think Raheem is the poor guy who got tapped to be the stopgap. He wasn't ready for the gig - I think in his heart of hearts, even he knew it.

His decisions (if they were his) on the coordinators, on his quarterback - right down to game day choices have proven this.

I do love the Bucs (with all my heart) and believe me, I hope Raheem can turn this thing around and make me and others that have come out against him look foolish. I have nothing against Raheem or Dominik.

But right now, I'm just calling it as I see it. I'll be there in two weeks rooting for them against the Jests.

It isn't about whining anymore. It's about our sad reality. Some Pollyanna Buc fans just don't want to hear it. I understand that - but for me, it needs to be said.

If you want to bury your head in the sand and wish it all away, by all means do so.

But don't you dare say I'm not a fan. I live and die with this team every week.


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#32 : November 24, 2009, 02:03:14 PM

Honestly, I didn't have higher expectations. I totally expected a step back - hell five steps back this season. I was prepared for it and knew it was coming.

What I have a problem with is what was illustrated in the article - the wrong choices made by the Brain Trust (or the Glazers if you choose to believe Talib25). Every step of the way, they've made the wrong decision (with the possible exception being Freeman).

Every crucial choice - wrong. From the coordinators to the quarterback.

Personally, I gave Raheem all the backing in the world - you saw me fighting for him on a weekly basis after he was hired. The problem is, I think Raheem is the poor guy who got tapped to be the stopgap. He wasn't ready for the gig - I think in his heart of hearts, even he knew it.

His decisions (if they were his) on the coordinators, on his quarterback - right down to game day choices have proven this.

I do love the Bucs (with all my heart) and believe me, I hope Raheem can turn this thing around and make me and others that have come out against him look foolish. I have nothing against Raheem or Dominik.

But right now, I'm just calling it as I see it. I'll be there in two weeks rooting for them against the Jests.

It isn't about whining anymore. It's about our sad reality. Some Pollyanna Buc fans just don't want to hear it. I understand that - but for me, it needs to be said.

If you want to bury your head in the sand and wish it all away, by all means do so.

But don't you dare say I'm not a fan. I live and die with this team every week.


Ditto


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#33 : November 24, 2009, 02:10:51 PM


Dude all I'm saying is you might have had higher expectations, but they couldn't have been much higher than a losing season. �It was inevitable and WE ALL knew it...Even Chazmoney...LOL

My point is why go through the same uproar every week? �Why get all upset over again. �For some of the negative people on this board you'd think it's challange them to find something positive something to hold onto. �I'm, personally, sick of the attack on Rah. �I totally believe 80% to 90% of the things said about him are just mean, nasty, and wrong. �That doesn't include Java's thoughts. �Same goes with Dom. �I honestly believe the Glazers have screwed this whole thing up and those boys are dangling trying to do the best they can to get it right. �Most of you act as though he was supposed to come in here and just have all the answers and if he did and they were still 1-9 you'd still be on him cuz they fired Gru to get to him...

It's just sad to me that the whole outrage is even going on still at this point in the season. �It's not like we don't know EVERYBODY's stance on where we are, were, and should be. Continual expression of it just tends to get old. �You hate the Bucs? �You tired of what's going on? �Find someone you do like and go post nice nice with them. �In the mean time, I'll hang with Garv, Uncle Stan, Lady Fan, Dbuc, Hate, heck even Dalbuc cuz I know no matter how bad it gets those guys and gals still love the Bucs...

Honestly, I didn't have higher expectations. I totally expected a step back - hell five steps back this season. I was prepared for it and knew it was coming.

What I have a problem with is what was illustrated in the article - the wrong choices made by the Brain Trust (or the Glazers if you choose to believe Talib25).  Every step of the way, they've made the wrong decision (with the possible exception being Freeman).

Every crucial choice - wrong. From the coordinators to the quarterback.

Personally, I gave Raheem all the backing in the world - you saw me fighting for him on a weekly basis after he was hired. The problem is, I think Raheem is the poor guy who got tapped to be the stopgap. He wasn't ready for the gig - I think in his heart of hearts, even he knew it.

His decisions (if they were his) on the coordinators, on his quarterback - right down to game day choices have proven this.

I do love the Bucs (with all my heart) and believe me, I hope Raheem can turn this thing around and make me and others that have come out against him look foolish. I have nothing against Raheem or Dominik.

But right now, I'm just calling it as I see it. I'll be there in two weeks rooting for them against the Jests.

It isn't about whining anymore. It's about our sad reality. Some Pollyanna Buc fans just don't want to hear it. I understand that - but for me, it needs to be said.

If you want to bury your head in the sand and wish it all away, by all means do so.

But don't you dare say I'm not a fan. I live and die with this team every week.


Bravo!!!

cheveliar

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#34 : November 24, 2009, 02:19:49 PM


Dude all I'm saying is you might have had higher expectations, but they couldn't have been much higher than a losing season. �It was inevitable and WE ALL knew it...Even Chazmoney...LOL

My point is why go through the same uproar every week? �Why get all upset over again. �For some of the negative people on this board you'd think it's challange them to find something positive something to hold onto. �I'm, personally, sick of the attack on Rah. �I totally believe 80% to 90% of the things said about him are just mean, nasty, and wrong. �That doesn't include Java's thoughts. �Same goes with Dom. �I honestly believe the Glazers have screwed this whole thing up and those boys are dangling trying to do the best they can to get it right. �Most of you act as though he was supposed to come in here and just have all the answers and if he did and they were still 1-9 you'd still be on him cuz they fired Gru to get to him...

It's just sad to me that the whole outrage is even going on still at this point in the season. �It's not like we don't know EVERYBODY's stance on where we are, were, and should be. Continual expression of it just tends to get old. �You hate the Bucs? �You tired of what's going on? �Find someone you do like and go post nice nice with them. �In the mean time, I'll hang with Garv, Uncle Stan, Lady Fan, Dbuc, Hate, heck even Dalbuc cuz I know no matter how bad it gets those guys and gals still love the Bucs...

Honestly, I didn't have higher expectations. I totally expected a step back - hell five steps back this season. I was prepared for it and knew it was coming.

What I have a problem with is what was illustrated in the article - the wrong choices made by the Brain Trust (or the Glazers if you choose to believe Talib25). Every step of the way, they've made the wrong decision (with the possible exception being Freeman).

Every crucial choice - wrong. From the coordinators to the quarterback.

Personally, I gave Raheem all the backing in the world - you saw me fighting for him on a weekly basis after he was hired. The problem is, I think Raheem is the poor guy who got tapped to be the stopgap. He wasn't ready for the gig - I think in his heart of hearts, even he knew it.

His decisions (if they were his) on the coordinators, on his quarterback - right down to game day choices have proven this.

I do love the Bucs (with all my heart) and believe me, I hope Raheem can turn this thing around and make me and others that have come out against him look foolish. I have nothing against Raheem or Dominik.

But right now, I'm just calling it as I see it. I'll be there in two weeks rooting for them against the Jests.

It isn't about whining anymore. It's about our sad reality. Some Pollyanna Buc fans just don't want to hear it. I understand that - but for me, it needs to be said.

If you want to bury your head in the sand and wish it all away, by all means do so.

But don't you dare say I'm not a fan. I live and die with this team every week.


First I never said you weren't a fan, I said I'm tired of people moaning and groaning about the SAME thing EVERY week we loose...As for burying my head I'd have to say you know me better than that.  My thoughts weren't personal, yours just happened to be the last one in a long line of people saying the same thing every week.  And none of "us" knows for sure.  What the real deal is.  All our speculation is geared around our favorite scape goat of the week.  Mine happen to be the Junior Jumpsuit wearers.  I personally refuse to believe if Rah had the reigns to hire and fire as he pleased that those would have been the ones.  Are you kidding? To think they found out the guy chadn't/couldn't call plays until the preseason is crazy. They knew well before hand.  Why would a cover 2 disciple trun and go to the Jim Bates whatever that was?  Cuz somebody freaking made him do it!!!!  But people choose to believe what they want...

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


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#35 : November 24, 2009, 02:26:27 PM


 I said I'm tired of people moaning and groaning about the SAME thing EVERY week we loose...

Many were tired of people moaning and groaning about the SAME thing EVERY week we played about Jon Gruden. 

Remember all the whining about "Mediocrity",..  about how bad the Bucs were even after a Win,..   about how bad Gruden was even though he made the playoffs?!?!?!?!? The cry that  this team would be so much better without the egomaniacal Jon Gruden?!?!?!?  How Jon Gruden was holding players back and not being fair,..  blah blah blah.

It was nauseating

The difference is painfully obvious now


bradentonian

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#36 : November 24, 2009, 02:34:54 PM


 I said I'm tired of people moaning and groaning about the SAME thing EVERY week we loose...

Many were tired of people moaning and groaning about the SAME thing EVERY week we played about Jon Gruden. 

Remember all the whining about "Mediocrity",..  about how bad the Bucs were even after a Win,..   about how bad Gruden was even though he made the playoffs?!?!?!?!? The cry that  this team would be so much better without the egomaniacal Jon Gruden?!?!?!?  How Jon Gruden was holding players back and not being fair,..  blah blah blah.

It was nauseating

The difference is painfully obvious now


Yes, now we are finally committed to build for the future


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#37 : November 24, 2009, 02:39:48 PM


First I never said you weren't a fan, I said I'm tired of people moaning and groaning about the SAME thing EVERY week we loose...As for burying my head I'd have to say you know me better than that.  My thoughts weren't personal, yours just happened to be the last one in a long line of people saying the same thing every week.  And none of "us" knows for sure.  What the real deal is.  All our speculation is geared around our favorite scape goat of the week.  Mine happen to be the Junior Jumpsuit wearers.  I personally refuse to believe if Rah had the reigns to hire and fire as he pleased that those would have been the ones.  Are you kidding? To think they found out the guy chadn't/couldn't call plays until the preseason is crazy. They knew well before hand.  Why would a cover 2 disciple trun and go to the Jim Bates whatever that was?  Cuz somebody freaking made him do it!!!!  But people choose to believe what they want...

Fair enough Chev (on the personal tip). As for Morris, you're right, none of us know what's going on behind the scenes (except maybe Talib25 and DTG). If it's true and the Glazers are the one's pulling the strings here - hopefully they got themselves a tough lesson in what not to do with the franchise and the firing of Bates is them stepping back and letting Raheem be the coach.

Whatever the situation, it's a cluster right now. We just have to ride it out and see how it goes. I just felt that after so much has happened, what I wrote needed to be said - point by point as to where this all has gone wrong.

Do I have any solutions? Not without knowing if the Glazers are going to put any money behind it.


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#38 : November 24, 2009, 03:03:36 PM

I'm trying to figure out this goofy "truth" that Bates' defense is "out of date". What exactly is out of date? NE is running a 2 gap 4-3 this year. Plenty of teams run man under coverages. His D was bad in DEN, yes, but then again the Tampa 2 was awful (or is it out of date?) in DET but yet here we sit crying for the return of the defense like it is some magical talisman to ward off the evil offenses.


All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#39 : November 24, 2009, 03:06:08 PM

Yes, now we are finally committed to build for the future

This. Very, very important.

cheveliar

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#40 : November 24, 2009, 03:08:22 PM

I think it's the lesser of two evils.  We all know we need BETTER players.  But I think the players we have will operate the Cover 2 better than the 4-3 Bates was trying to force us into.  I think the real problem becomes draft time.  Do we commit back to finding our Sapp, Brooks, and Lynch or do we do something different?

Without Carl Nix it feels like our running game just took a death blow to the face!


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#41 : November 24, 2009, 03:11:02 PM

I'm trying to figure out this goofy "truth" that Bates' defense is "out of date". What exactly is out of date? NE is running a 2 gap 4-3 this year. Plenty of teams run man under coverages. His D was bad in DEN, yes, but then again the Tampa 2 was awful (or is it out of date?) in DET but yet here we sit crying for the return of the defense like it is some magical talisman to ward off the evil offenses.



2 Gap is not out of date, it's run all over the NFL. It's Bates version of the two gap system that is. Failed in Green Bay. Failed in Denver and now failed in Tampa Bay.


bradentonian

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#42 : November 24, 2009, 03:11:28 PM

I think it's the lesser of two evils.  We all know we need BETTER players.  But I think the players we have will operate the Cover 2 better than the 4-3 Bates was trying to force us into.  I think the real problem becomes draft time.  Do we commit back to finding our Sapp, Brooks, and Lynch or do we do something different?

I think the Tampa-2 is a placeholder to the end of the season, then in the offseason the FO will be looking to upgrade with bigger, stronger players to suit their long-term vision.


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#43 : November 24, 2009, 03:13:29 PM

Yes, now we are finally committed to build for the future

This. Very, very important.

Suckerrrrrsssssssssssssss.

Gotta love the guys that think "they know more" then everyone else. Their fallback statement is ALWAYS the same.

"were building for the future"

"long term solutions"

What's it like to go through life so gullible?

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#44 : November 24, 2009, 03:14:22 PM

Yes, now we are finally committed to build for the future

This. Very, very important.

I dont think we've even begun to rebuild.

It's obvious the the DC will be changed next year and that whole unit is going to get blown up AGAIN. The OC is on thin ice. And the HC is in over his head.

I don't know how the hell you can call this "rebuilding." You rebuild when you have a solid coaching staff in place. You have a set system in place you are dedicated to. And you fill in the holes with the missing players. When Dungy came here with Kiffin. That was a solid duo. They had a system and slowly build it up and stayed with it. We are not doing that right now. What Raheem and Dominik basically did by removing Bates is saying to everyone that the system that we were going with is a failure and we are starting over again next year. The Browns, Lions, and Rams have been stuck in this cycle for many years. And year after year it just never gets better.
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