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#15 : November 29, 2009, 05:34:30 PM

a large group want to blindly follow an agenda to blame one man for all the lack of wins.

Why do all of the apologists blindly follow their agenda of blaming Gruden? The man's not even here any more.

Never mind all the years of bad drafting and patching up holes with over the hill free agents that provide no long term solution.

Oh, that's right, you're one of them.

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#16 : November 29, 2009, 05:38:58 PM

a large group want to blindly follow an agenda to blame one man for all the lack of wins.

Why do all of the apologists blindly follow their agenda of blaming Gruden? The man's not even here any more.

Never mind all the years of bad drafting and patching up holes with over the hill free agents that provide no long term solution.

Oh, that's right, you're one of them.


Possibly because the problems on this team started long before this season.   Possibly because people like to talk about Gruden doing this or that so if I want to bring up the fact that he drafted bad and patched holes instead of rebuilding this team and defense years ago when it needed to be done then I will do it.   If you don't like that you can skip past it.    Raheem Morris is no great savior and I really don't care if he gets fired......I just don't see why people can't open their eyes and see it's not one man who made this team 1-10.   It's taken years of neglect and bad decisions by management and ownership to create it.    How can I blame a guy for taking a dream job before he was ready?   I don't.   I choose to blame the ones who got us here and the ones who hired him.    Got it, Sparky?


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#17 : November 29, 2009, 05:43:15 PM

you **CENSORED**ing punt the god damn ball there

you also run the **CENSORED**ing ball in the 4th, Olson screwed the pooch

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#18 : November 29, 2009, 05:56:47 PM

a large group want to blindly follow an agenda to blame one man for all the lack of wins.

Why do all of the apologists blindly follow their agenda of blaming Gruden? The man's not even here any more.

Never mind all the years of bad drafting and patching up holes with over the hill free agents that provide no long term solution.

Oh, that's right, you're one of them.


Possibly because the problems on this team started long before this season.   Possibly because people like to talk about Gruden doing this or that so if I want to bring up the fact that he drafted bad and patched holes instead of rebuilding this team and defense years ago when it needed to be done then I will do it.   If you don't like that you can skip past it.    Raheem Morris is no great savior and I really don't care if he gets fired......I just don't see why people can't open their eyes and see it's not one man who made this team 1-10.   It's taken years of neglect and bad decisions by management and ownership to create it.    How can I blame a guy for taking a dream job before he was ready?   I don't.   I choose to blame the ones who got us here and the ones who hired him.    Got it, Sparky?

Wooa....guys let's not hijack this thread with a Gruden-Morris debate.  Bottom line is that Morris is struggling this year(unless 1-10 is good???), Gruden was a poor drafter, the Glazers have had the Bucs with a low payroll since about 2005, the Bucs were super bowl contenders when they were in cap hell, Gruden inherited an aging good defense and a patchwork offense built better for the short term, Morris inherited a team not as talented but certainly built better for the long-term.
Either way, 1-10 is inexcusable.  We've had winning seasons 3 out of the last 4 years.  Yeah, we didn't have the most talented of teams, but 1-10?  Come on man.  I think Freeman is the man.  Thank you Morris for drafting him(so far anyway), but he's 1-10.  Until he get's 9 wins in this league, Let's not even include him in the same sentence as Gruden.


Anyway back to the thread, yes, Morris should have just punted there, but with the way our defense was giving the falcons WRS/TES 10 yards all day in that final drive, I would assume we would have lost anyway.

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#19 : November 29, 2009, 06:10:52 PM

Why attempt that 51 yard FG ?  The Falcons were gonna have to score a TD anyways to win the game. Why not punt the ball and maybe get lucky by forcing them to start from within the 10yard line? God Raheem is a moron.

Your punter is injured and can't play. Are you going to guarantee a kick inside the 10 yard line in that position? Add to that the fact that your FG kicker made three 50+ FG's in a single game, out-of-doors. I wouldn't have hesitated to put him out there for a 51-yarder inside a dome.

Yup.  The punt was the right call in that situation.  The player has to execute, and he came pretty close.


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#20 : November 29, 2009, 07:12:07 PM

How about going for it on 4th and 4 from their 33? A punt probably goes in the endzone, the missed fg puts them on the 40 so in that situation, going for it might be the best option

That's actually not a bad thought.

FWIW....given the situation....I would have punted. I do agree that more aggressive playcalling might have helped leading up to the FG attempt. Some have mentioned the fact that you risk a sack with a pass play. Well....that's fine....then you simply punt.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

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#21 : November 29, 2009, 07:13:50 PM

terrible decision making on those last couple of drives ... first the fake that got our punter injured and then the 51 yard FG.  Both plays put the Falcons in great field position

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#22 : November 29, 2009, 07:19:42 PM

Yeah, this and the Faked punt were just awful decisions. I don't see the logic in attempting a tough field goal and taking a chance to give them a shorter field. Terrible decision by Raheem and a major factor in why the Bucs lost today.


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#23 : November 29, 2009, 08:15:52 PM

Go for it or take a delay of game and punt the damn ball.....

He has cost us a couple of wins this year for sure. But you know he is learning on the job....


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#24 : November 29, 2009, 10:36:21 PM

Wow, second guessing a decision with the benefit of knowing how the play turns out sure is easy, isn't it?

Actually I don't mind that call for two reasons.  One, it's indoors on a carpet in a dome; that's a whole lot different than kicking outdoors on grass. But more importantly, it is playing to win, rather than playing to not lose; I like that attitude.

However, my first choice would have been neither punt nor field goal attempt. From that part of the field I think you should be thinking four down territory with your play calling, and go for a first down. You're in no-man's-land: punt into the end zone and you gain just 13 yards in field position; miss a field goal and you give up the ball near mid-field. Make your play calls on the previous three plays with the idea that you have four downs (rather than three) to get ten yards. If you lose yardage on a sack or penalty, then go ahead and punt, but head into the series of downs with the idea you are going to go for it on 4th and five or less; if nothing else try to draw them offsides on 4th if nothing looks good.


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#25 : November 29, 2009, 10:40:26 PM

PR is supporting the decision in the roudtable


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#26 : November 29, 2009, 10:42:19 PM

Wow, second guessing a decision with the benefit of knowing how the play turns out sure is easy, isn't it?

Actually I don't mind that call for two reasons. One, it's indoors on a carpet in a dome; that's a whole lot different than kicking outdoors on grass. But more importantly, it is playing to win, rather than playing to not lose; I like that attitude.

However, my first choice would have been neither punt nor field goal attempt. From that part of the field I think you should be thinking four down territory with your play calling, and go for a first down. You're in no-man's-land: punt into the end zone and you gain just 13 yards in field position; miss a field goal and you give up the ball near mid-field. Make your play calls on the previous three plays with the idea that you have four downs (rather than three) to get ten yards. If you lose yardage on a sack or penalty, then go ahead and punt, but head into the series of downs with the idea you are going to go for it on 4th and five or less; if nothing else try to draw them offsides on 4th if nothing looks good.




so you're second guessing as well?    ::)



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#27 : November 29, 2009, 11:08:43 PM

Wow, second guessing a decision with the benefit of knowing how the play turns out sure is easy, isn't it?

Actually I don't mind that call for two reasons. One, it's indoors on a carpet in a dome; that's a whole lot different than kicking outdoors on grass. But more importantly, it is playing to win, rather than playing to not lose; I like that attitude.

However, my first choice would have been neither punt nor field goal attempt. From that part of the field I think you should be thinking four down territory with your play calling, and go for a first down. You're in no-man's-land: punt into the end zone and you gain just 13 yards in field position; miss a field goal and you give up the ball near mid-field. Make your play calls on the previous three plays with the idea that you have four downs (rather than three) to get ten yards. If you lose yardage on a sack or penalty, then go ahead and punt, but head into the series of downs with the idea you are going to go for it on 4th and five or less; if nothing else try to draw them offsides on 4th if nothing looks good.
so you're second guessing as well?   ::)
Yeah, I know that's what it looks like but ... just wondering what percentage of those (including the original poster) that are screaming that it was a terrible call actually thought that prior to the kick.  Anyways, my first choice (and thought at the time) was 'go for it'. Second choice was go for a FG, and a punt was my last choice. In my opinion far too many NFL coaches don't even consider going for it on 4th down, unless they are losing and it's the last possession of the game.

In that area of the playing field I almost always say it's a better choice to go for it on 4th down rather than either a punt or a FG. About the only exception would be (a) if the opponent had a superior defense (like the Ravens or Steelers), or (b) if your own team had a superior defense (like the Bucs did seven to ten years ago.)
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