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#15 : March 04, 2007, 03:26:29 AM



We aint making the playoffs next year


You say a lot of dumb things, but this was a hummm dinger.

It doesnt take long for teams to turn things around anymore, due to FA and advanced college prospects. The Browns and Cardinals could make the playoffs next year

SI blows

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#16 : March 04, 2007, 03:36:17 AM

"The Bucs could end up looking pretty darn shrewd in the whole deal if that scenario unfolds, but there is some risk in their gambit as well. What if Plummer calls their bluff and un-retires, announcing his plans to report to Tampa Bay's training camp?"

I'm not convinced jake can "call our Bluff". If he does and we release him and he goes to Kubiak, there are real charges of collusion and possible Tampering that can be brought up. What he's trying to do appears as transparent as glass. While the league is often hands-off on this kind of stuff, with Allen and the Glazers pushing it, Plummer and Houston could find themselves with bigger issues than trying to work out a trade we like.

If the retirement talk was a surprise to us, we had a chance to bail out when he first said it. Instead we stayed in. Say what you want, but Bruce is a shrewd businessman. While he may take a gamble, I don't think he'll take a high-risk low-reward one. If the situation was as clear as Jake just waiting and us having to release him, there's no way we made such an obvious mistake. Even Millen wouldn't pull that. Only Al Davis would -- remember what he did to Marcus? I suppose we could be holding that threat, but I think it's something else. People are missing something here. Whether it's the tampering/collusion, or something else, we have leverage here -- why do you think Jake is trying to get this trade annuled? He's not doing it to help us, he needs to get out because we have something over his head.


Yeah. Especially the way that the Texans didnt want to give anything up. They thought that Denver would simply release Plummer and would not have to give up a draft pick. Then Plummer learned that the Broncos were making a deal with the Bucs. So he pulled the retirement card to try to ice it. Both teams knew exactly what he was trying to do and didn't let him get away with it.

So now unless Houston wants to go through another season with David Carr (which they really dont want) they will have to go through Bruce Allen and pay more for a guy they could have got for a lot less.

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#17 : March 04, 2007, 03:41:08 AM

They make 3 points, and none of them are all that great.

1. Plummer didn't want to play for us and might not.

Well, in that case, we keep the money (if I understand correctly) and Denver doesn't get a great draft pick, if one at all. Works out fine. No harm, all foul? How does that make sense?

2. We're spending a lot of money on not a ton of talent at QB.

Well, where do you expect us to spend our big wad of money with New England, Cincy, and San Fran signing up all the worthwhile FAs. It's not like we can use that cap space next year, it's now or never. We don't have carryover cap space, our provider doesn't allow it. So we can either spend it on Garcia and Plummer(probably not), and still have about 10 mil to sign a guy like Hamlin if he so chose. Or we could twiddle our thumbs and watch other teams sign guys like Garcia, who you give us no love for signing, and still have a lot of money to spend and no depth at QB

3. This stinks for Bruce Gradkowski.

Yes, it does indeed SI.com. It does indeed. Maybe now Bruce will be motivated to play worth a crap when he does get the chance again, here or somewhere else. The fact is, the guy was a 6th round rook who ONLY got PT because of injuries. Same could be said for Ryan Fitzpatrick of the Rams who played alright a year or two back. But no one really thinks a whole hell of a lot of Fitzpatrick right now and chances are if he got the short end of the stick like Grads, you wouldn't give two craps about it, would you SI.com? Bruce didn't show much, even for a rook in a bad situation, so why are we even talking about him when we just acquired two starting caliber QBs?

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#18 : March 04, 2007, 03:47:26 AM

Here's why the league has to back the Bucs: theoretically, if they let Plummer get away with this, it invalidates every contract in the league. If a guy doesn't like where he's at and the terms, he could retire for a day, then unretire and become a FA. It would invalidate the whole system. So Plummer really doesn't have a case. It's obvious it's a phony retirement or else he wouldn't care.
This isn't baseball with a 5-and-10 rule. He doesn't have a choice. And the Bucs will do as others suggested: trade him to the Raiders or to the Texans.
As for Grads, sorry, but this is the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, not the Tampa Bay Gradaneers. The Grads point has no point and is so far beneath SI standards as to be unprofessional.

In Verner We Trust

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#19 : March 04, 2007, 04:04:59 AM

I'm not going to make any judgement until after the draft.    I think there will still be some movement at the QB position.   To judge things as they stand right now seems premature to me.

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#20 : March 04, 2007, 04:16:09 AM

That makes sense to me, caradoc.   I'm curious to see how this plays out.

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#21 : March 04, 2007, 04:48:00 AM

I'll add some more thoughts, since I can't seem to sleep:

I don't buy the "has to play for Tampa" clause but if tru, it changes nothing.  He then has to play for us or retire.

I don't buy it because Denver has to be glad the got ANYTHING for Jake, because they otherwise get nothing, so they don't have leverage to force it if we didn't want it.

The conditional is probably something along the lines of "4th if he plays for anyone, 6 or 7th if he retires".  It's better than nothing for Denver, and it's a low pick for us, easily overcome.

I think this will all shake out sooner rather than later.  If Houston really wants him they're better off moving faster than slower.  If we really want him to start, and he agrees, Garcia will want a trade -- he was CLEARLY told he was starting, and we don't want that press hanging around us.

SI is right about one thing - this is a gamble.  Bruce is gambling that Jake doesn't want to retire.  If he does, we lose a low pick.  If he doesn't, we got something we wanted that was worth a fourth rounder.

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#22 : March 04, 2007, 08:48:43 AM

SI might have ripped us, but CBS Sportsline praised us.

Given the track record... I'll take CBS' analysis.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10035748

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#23 : March 04, 2007, 08:54:06 AM

Check out Peter King's logic...He seems to get what we are doing...

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#24 : March 04, 2007, 09:00:26 AM

Let's take this thought a little bit further. Jake's contract is for 3 more years. Should Jake want to 'un-retire' during that time the Bucs own his rights. As of right now, Jake costs nothing to the Bucs, but there is a real chance that Jake will come back to play at some time in the next 3 years and at worse, the Bucs have another starting caliber QB on reserve.

I'm of the opinion that initially, Plummer was Gruden's choice to compete against Simms, not Garcia. Once Plummer decided to 'retire' and kill the trade, Bruce saw a opportunity. However, knowing that this opportunity might not work out, he still had to find a vet QB for this year. Enter the Bucs interest in Garcia.

Once the Garcia deal is done, Allen calls Denver back and offers a conditional pick in 2008 for Plummer. Both Tampa and Denver know what's going on with Plummer, however, Denver is cap strapped and can't do anything about it. However, the Buc's have plenty of cap so the deal is made. Denver still recaps a pick in 2008 and the Bucs have a reserve QB.

This has all been rehashed over and over. The Plummer move is a shrewed one that costs the Bucs very little. If Jake sits out a year and wants to come back next season, maybe we part ways with Garcia and add Plummer. If Plummer tries to come back this season, then we hold options during training camp. Anyone who loses a QB during the pre-season is going to call us first.

This is all about options, options that cost us almost nothing. Anyone that actually puts some thought into the reasoning can see that.

Success is when Skill meets OpportunityFailure is when Fantasy meets Reality

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#25 : March 04, 2007, 09:05:15 AM

That article was actually balanced. 

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#26 : March 04, 2007, 10:08:01 AM

I think we tried to be too slick for our good and could get caught holding the hot potatoe (Plummer).   I just can't see the logic behind investing or risking investing this much in the QB position.  5.3 mill in Plummer and 10 mill or so on Garcia and Simms depending on playing time.  I can understand the Garcia signing if we thought the Plummer deal was off the table.  But once we signed Garcia then Plummer no longer should have been considered.  We should now be focusing on the safety and o-line free agents.  Instead, we traded for Plummer even though he is disgruntled and doesn't want to play here and is contemplating retirement.  I realize we got him at a discount with the conditional pick but why take this gamble?  Because we hope to strong arm Houston into trading for Plummer?  If they didn't want to give Denver a  draft pick for Plummer why would they give us one, especially when they know what we are trying to do.  Houston knows we can't afford to have two millionaire QBs on the bench and we'll eventually have to cut somebody.  They could just dig their heels in and wait us out.   Plummer could force our hand by showing up to camp and adding his 5.3 cap hit on the books.  You really think he is going to be willing to restructure after all this?  If we dont cut any of them and can't pull off a trade,  we're stuck with a huge chunk of our cap devoted to th QB position, with multiple millionaire QBs on the bench.  Not the best use of cap space to me.  I know gruden likes to collect QBs but this is ridiculous. 

I suppose locking up the top FA QBs forces teams like Oakland, Detroit and Cleveland to focus on Russell and Quinn instead of CJ.  That's a positive point.  But I don't think that positive point outweighs the potential salary cap ramifications of this move. I've heard some of you say that other teams devote 10-15 mill annually into their QB position except they do so primarily with one franchise guy (Manning, Brees, Palmer, Brady, etc) and a few slappies behind them.  That is a a decent point. But with those franchise QBs starting, winning games and going to Pro Bowls, those teams are getting a good return on their investments. Most of that big money is on the field contributing for them. If we cant pull off a deal, we'll spread 10-15 mill amongst three guys who are AT BEST middle of the pack QBs in this league.  2/3 of them gathering dust holding clipboards too.  See the difference? 

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#27 : March 04, 2007, 10:25:16 AM

Who really cares what the media says. Lets just see how this **CENSORED** turns out.


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#28 : March 04, 2007, 10:39:59 AM

The only thing that plummer could do is just say fine I'm playing for the bucs. Mail in the season, do sh*t and sit on his a$$ and act like an idiot. He does that we have to pay him his money or release him, either or. Those situations would be a very bad one for us but that will not happen.

Garcia is a chip to be dealt and we have to sit by minute to minute until its done...



Baghead #2

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#29 : March 04, 2007, 10:42:22 AM

Garcia is staying.

Between Plummer or Simms one of them will go.

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