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spartan

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#30 : March 15, 2010, 06:14:42 PM

All that talk of explosions, I'm kinda curious what people would expect thousands of tons of concrete and steel crashing down from 1000+ft would sound like? Ever heard an avalanche?

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#31 : March 15, 2010, 06:34:39 PM

[quote spartan]1. They pick on stupid stuff. So far out you think "what?". Ventura stating in that video the Pentagon was hit by a missile for example. At least be credible.



How was it possible the Pentagon was hit 1 hour and 20 minutes after the attacks began? Why was there no response from Andrews Air Force Base, just 10 miles away and home to Air National Guard units charged with defending the skies above the nation''s capital? How did Hani Hanjour, a man who failed as a Cessna pilot on his first flight in a Boeing, execute a difficult aerobatic maneuver to strike the Pentagon? Why did the attack strike the just-renovated side, which was largely empty and opposite from the high command?
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dbucfan

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#32 : March 15, 2010, 06:43:27 PM

LOL - staying away from the math challenge is likely a good idea on your part.  Now backing Jesse 'the body' Ventura isn't a better idea than getting into the math challenge.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#33 : March 15, 2010, 07:46:56 PM

How was it possible the Pentagon was hit 1 hour and 20 minutes after the attacks began?

Flight 11 struck the north tower at 8:46. At that time, no one knew it was a deliberate attack. The hijacking of Flight 77 began a few minutes later.

8:56: The transponder on Flight 77 is turned off and even primary radar contact with the aircraft is lost. During radar blackout Flight 77 turns east, unnoticed by flight controllers. When primary radar information is restored at 9:05, controllers look futilely for Flight 77 west of its previous position. Flight 77 travels undetected for 36 minutes on a course heading due east toward Washington, D.C.

9:32: Controllers at the Dulles Terminal Radar Approach Control in Virginia  observe "a primary radar target tracking eastbound at a high rate of speed", referring to Flight 77.

9:33 to 9:34: Tower supervisor at Reagan National Airport tells Secret Service operations center at the White House that "an aircraft [is] coming at you and not talking with us," referring to Flight 77. The White House is about to be evacuated when the tower reports that Flight 77 has turned and is approaching Reagan International Airport.

9:37:46: Flight 77 crashes into the western side of the Pentagon and starts a violent fire. The section of the Pentagon hit consists mainly of newly renovated, unoccupied offices. All 64 people on board are killed, as are 125 Pentagon personnel.
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Partially taken from Wikipedia, but you'll find it fully sourced there:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_for_the_day_of_the_September_11_attacks

How did Hani Hanjour, a man who failed as a Cessna pilot on his first flight in a Boeing, execute a difficult aerobatic maneuver to strike the Pentagon?

I could teach even you how to fly a plane in less than five minutes. Taking off and landing the thing, however, are a whole new ballgame.

Why did the attack strike the just-renovated side, which was largely empty and opposite from the high command?

That's the direction the plane flew in from. Notice above how the pilot turned and headed towards the airport? Because that's where the non-directional beacon is, 5.19 nautical miles south-east of Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport. From there, he could orientate himself to identify the landmarks that would allow him to find the Pentagon. It's ironic that you accuse everyone else of not doing their research.

http://www.globalair.com/airport/ronald_reagan_washington_national/dca.aspx

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#34 : March 15, 2010, 08:00:39 PM

How was it possible the Pentagon was hit 1 hour and 20 minutes after the attacks began? Why was there no response from Andrews Air Force Base, just 10 miles away and home to Air National Guard units charged with defending the skies above the nation''s capital? How did Hani Hanjour, a man who failed as a Cessna pilot on his first flight in a Boeing, execute a difficult aerobatic maneuver to strike the Pentagon? Why did the attack strike the just-renovated side, which was largely empty and opposite from the high command?

How? Because it is a government operation. Seriously,

Until 9/11 there was no domestic Air Defense Identification Zones. Only 14 fighters were on "alert" status that morning and NORAD. ATC had to call NORAD and tell them something was going wrong...literally as in pick up the phone and dial them. ATC called NORAD 4 times:

8:37 to tell them Flight 11 was hijacked - which wasn't going to trigger an intercept on its own.
9:03 called in hijacking on F175
9:21 to tell them Flight 11 was heading to DC, it had actually hit the WTC 35 minutes prior
9:41 with an errant report of a hijacking of a Delta jet

That is not good info right there to be getting to make a decision. Frankly it took longer to get fighters into the air on the morning of Pearl harbor and the planes were easier to launch and the info needed to make a decision was really flippin' obvious.

ATC couldn't even ID the flights since once the transponders went off all they could do was search radar blips of which there were 4500 and they were trying to find 4 planes. Good luck. 5 fighters were scrambled after the 9:03 call but none found the hijacked planes.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#35 : March 15, 2010, 08:12:39 PM

Yeah, why also did Cheney tell NORAD to stand down? They kept telling Cheney, "Sir, the plane is 15 miles away, 10 miles away, 5 miles away are the orders still to stand down". Than he said, "of course the orders are to stand down why would I say anything different!". Your move "Illuminator".

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#36 : March 15, 2010, 08:14:46 PM

You gotta love how this display of ineptitude can somehow be interpreted as a conspiracy executed with precision.

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#37 : March 15, 2010, 08:20:46 PM

Your move "Illuminator".

Incorrect. When I prove you wrong, you fail to even acknowledge it and just move on to some other poorly researched whackjob conspiracy theory you've heard. You can keep spitting out stupid crap all day long. As the saying goes, "A fool can ask more questions than a wise man can answer." I'll not waste any more of my time with you until you address the fact that Ventura's "free fall" statement was incorrect.

And by the way, if you see him, thank him for "schooling me."

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#38 : March 15, 2010, 08:25:47 PM

You and I are going to get along just great!

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#39 : March 15, 2010, 08:26:25 PM

Yeah, why also did Cheney tell NORAD to stand down? They kept telling Cheney, "Sir, the plane is 15 miles away, 10 miles away, 5 miles away are the orders still to stand down". Than he said, "of course the orders are to stand down why would I say anything different!". Your move "Illuminator".

Sources...not from wingnuts or moonbats. I mean CNN, Foxnews, NYT, National Review, New Republic your pick.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

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#40 : March 15, 2010, 11:33:48 PM

Your move "Illuminator".

Incorrect. When I prove you wrong, you fail to even acknowledge it and just move on to some other poorly researched whackjob conspiracy theory you've heard. You can keep spitting out stupid crap all day long. As the saying goes, "A fool can ask more questions than a wise man can answer." I'll not waste any more of my time with you until you address the fact that Ventura's "free fall" statement was incorrect.

And by the way, if you see him, thank him for "schooling me."


 Lets see if you can "prove me wrong" some more genius! If your not able to have logical answers and or even.... just answers, I'll forgive you.

 Why were passengers able to make calls on there cell phones at 30,000+Ft? If that were even possible in 2001(which its was'nt)they could have been able to track them by tracing it, hence finding the plane. Instead of the excuse they used that the transponders were turned off so their was no way of finding the planes which is BS. But they didnt so that was a lie.

Why did the FBI say they were'nt able to recover the Black boxes? They were able to find finger nail fragments but they were'nt able to find a box that is bright orange and practicly indestructible? The FBI came out and said that there were none recovered, but there were two 9/11 first responders on the scene admitting that both Black boxes from both Planes were indeed recovered. It was also denied in the 9/11 commission report. So that was a lie.

 Why did they srap all the metal and ship one massive crime scene off to China to be melted down when it could been tested to see if their was explosive material used? Is this standard crime scene operating procedure?

 Why did **CENSORED** Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz state that their needed to be "A New Pearl Harbor" type event to help restructure the military in their "Project For A New American Century".

 Why were there multiple military wargames planned long in advance and held on the morning of September 11th included scenarios of a domestic air crisis, a plane crashing into a government building, and a large-scale emergency in New York.

 Why were certain prominent persons received warnings not to fly on the week or on the day of September 11th.

 Why did the EPA come out and say that the air was safe to breathe for the 9/11 rescues workers. Many of which have died of cancer, black lung, organ failure, etc.

 Two of the alleged ringleaders who were known to be under surveillance by the CIA also lived with an FBI asset in San Diego, but this is supposed to be yet another coincidence???

Why was Bush, Cheney and others allowed to be questioned not publicly, but behind closed doors?

Also, I asked you the question, you of course couldnt anwser and that is. Why did Cheney tell NORAD to stand down as the plane was heading closer and closer for D.C.?

Did the Shanksville crash occur at 10:06 (according to a seismic report) or 10:03 (according to the 9/11 Commission)? Does the Commission wish to hide what happened in the last three minutes of the flight, and if so, why? Was Flight 93 shot down, as indicated by the scattering of debris over a trail of several miles?

?????

What happened to initial claims by the government that 50 people involved in the attacks had been identified, including the 19 alleged hijackers, with 10 still at large (suggesting that 20 had been apprehended)?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-worldtrade-50suspects,0,1825231.story

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#41 : March 15, 2010, 11:57:46 PM

Yeah, why also did Cheney tell NORAD to stand down? They kept telling Cheney, "Sir, the plane is 15 miles away, 10 miles away, 5 miles away are the orders still to stand down". Than he said, "of course the orders are to stand down why would I say anything different!". Your move "Illuminator".

Sources...not from wingnuts or moonbats. I mean CNN, Foxnews, NYT, National Review, New Republic your pick.

Even if it's true, it doesn't mean much.  One of my coworkers on 9/11 was a retired Air Force test pilot.  It was his professional opinion at the time that no Air Force pilot would obey an order to shoot down a civilian airliner.  Now, maybe my friends opinion was true and maybe it wasn't, but one way or the other, giving an order to shoot down an airliner full of civilians is NOT a trivial or eay decision to make.

(And yes, I imagine such an order would be given and followed if the same situation were to occur today.  A lot of things changed that day.)

spartan

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#42 : March 16, 2010, 12:00:01 AM

Yeah, why also did Cheney tell NORAD to stand down? They kept telling Cheney, "Sir, the plane is 15 miles away, 10 miles away, 5 miles away are the orders still to stand down". Than he said, "of course the orders are to stand down why would I say anything different!". Your move "Illuminator".

That quote is based on the testimony of Norman Mineta to the 911 commission. The actual quote is as follows:

http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2008/01/22/02147.html   
During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, 'The plane is 50 miles out.' 'The plane is 30 miles out.' And when it got down to 'the plane is 10 miles out,' the young man also said to the Vice President, 'Do the orders still stand?' And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, 'Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?'



http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2005/270705testimonycensored.htm
Mineta: 'During the time that the airplane was coming into the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President 'the plane is 50 miles out' 'the plane is 30 miles out'.and when it got down to the plane is 10 miles out, the young man also said to the vice president 'do the orders still stand?' And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said 'Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary!?


http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/alibis/cheney.html
MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"

Observe that 2 of the links are conspiracy sites, one you even quoted as being a "source" of information. Also observe the absence of the word "down" in any of those quotes.  FWIW it took me about 2 minutes and the power of google to come up with proof, from your own sites that your quote was factually incorrect. But then again I don't do any research! Sorry didn't mean to be **CENSORED**y but that was too good to miss. I have read lots about this and know quite a bit about the crap that is out there. On the other hand, quoting stuff that is obviously and easily disproved is not exactly the way to change minds and prove your point.  Ventura is another one. To sit there and say a missile hit the Pentagon when there are literally thousands of independent witnesses to the contrary immediately and unequivocally destroys his credibility.


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#43 : March 16, 2010, 12:03:38 AM

I know that I have several friends who saw Flight 77 come in.  (I work in the defense industry, so that's not as unlikely as it probably shounds.)  They didn't see the strike itself, but if it were a missile, you'd have to explain wtf happened to Flight 77.

acacius

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#44 : March 16, 2010, 12:51:16 AM


nutjob conspiracy theories


I would love for you to tell that to a family members face of those who lost there lives on 9/11, since a vast majority of them are the ones who started the 9/11 truth movement. I would love for you to do that and I would love to see what the results were.

Oh, and by the way.  Color me very skeptical on this.  I'll cheerfully admit that people I know who lost loved ones on 9/11 is a pretty small subset, but without fail, Truthers *really* piss them off.  I'm sure there are people who turned to the movement in grief, but a "vast majority"?  I really, really doubt it.
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