Welcome, Guest
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Passive or Aggressive « previous next »
Page: 1 2 3 4

Uncle Stan

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 17499
Offline
« #30 : October 21, 2006, 01:34:59 PM »

Abuccs,

I just can't believe Gruden would allow a situation in which we would lose games to "prove his point"-if that's what you are implying.

Thanks for the pics of the Cincy game. Your shot of Clayton scoring was fantastic! Kudos.




Learn to disagree without being disagreeable-Ronald Reagan circa 1981

ABuccs Fan

*
Practice Squad

Posts : 0
Offline
« #31 : October 21, 2006, 01:38:46 PM »

Abuccs,

I just can't believe Gruden would allow a situation in which we would lose games to "prove his point"-if that's what you are implying.

Thanks for the pics of the Cincy game. Your shot of Clayton scoring was fantastic! Kudos.




There you go again assuming I mean Jon was intentionally losing games. He believed his system would work, even when it wasn't. He kept trying, thinking this is the one that works, the next one is the big one. Let's not pretend Jon isn't stubborn when it comes to his playcalling and schemeing.

mjs020294

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 2245
Offline
« #32 : October 21, 2006, 01:38:54 PM »

I agree with that part.  But not the "set to fail" - that line of thought is out there. 
It's a reading comprehension thing. I stated that Gurden wasn't putting Simms in a position to succeed a few weeks ago. The mentally challanged took that and ran with it, twisting into I was saying Gruden was setting Simms up to fail. Not putting someone in a position to succeeed and setting them up to fail are 2 totally different things. One impiles melicious, intentional, wrongfull acts.

 Without any real alternative Gruden went with Simms this year, but I doubt he was ever fully committed to him.  They were already making plans to make a change but the injury bug struck again.  Now Grads is in Gruden is determined to help him succeed, so I guess there is a little conspiracy to a point.

Simms was a victim of circumstance, mainly brought about by Rich McKay.  I really hope he finds a team that suits his playing style and embraces him from day one.  After what he has endured and fought through in Tampa he deserves that at least.



mjs020294

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 2245
Offline
« #33 : October 21, 2006, 01:40:18 PM »

Let's not pretend Jon isn't stubborn when it comes to his playcalling and schemeing.

Gruden is stubborn...who'd have thunk it.   :o


donny77

****
Starter

Posts : 680
Online
« #34 : October 21, 2006, 01:40:43 PM »

I like Simms a lot, but the reason we have fewer 3 step drops with Gradkowski isn't to help Grads out.  It has simply been replaced with Gruden's most favorite play, the bootleg.  Gruden rarely called a bootleg with Chris because Chris can't throw on the run.  The change in the offense that you've seen is that the bootleg forces defenses to play a lot more honest.  The beauty of a bootleg is the time it give the recievers to get open, plus the QB can easily take off if nothing is there.  Throw in a play action and the defense has to be mindful of the RB, QB, and all the recievers on the same play.

ABuccs Fan

*
Practice Squad

Posts : 0
Offline
« #35 : October 21, 2006, 01:41:49 PM »

Abuccs,

I just can't believe Gruden would allow a situation in which we would lose games to "prove his point"-if that's what you are implying.

Thanks for the pics of the Cincy game. Your shot of Clayton scoring was fantastic! Kudos.




Here is a better analogy for you Stan....the guy sitting at the roulette table losing all his money. Is he sitting there intentionally trying to make himself poor, or does he think the next one is the big payoff, and just keeps trying?

dbucfan

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 46231
Offline
« #36 : October 21, 2006, 01:45:42 PM »

I agree with that part. But not the "set to fail" - that line of thought is out there.
. I stated that Gurden wasn't putting Simms in a position to succeed a few weeks ago.

Not putting someone in a position to succeeed and setting them up to fail are 2 totally different things. One impiles melicious, intentional, wrongfull acts.

Yea, I saw that and the responses.  Agreed with the concept but have trouble with Gruden and Co not having all this worked out before the PS even started.  It bothers me that Coach appears to have tried to drive the square peg into the round hole - I would have thought he was smarter than that.  Not that much gray area between stubborn and stupid.  Right now I just don't like that Simms, a player who I thought was talented and could of been a 5-10 year qb for the team is gone, and surprise the bucs have another new qb.

PS   I do like watching Grads.  Hope he is and will be all that the Coaches and fans are looking for.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

ABuccs Fan

*
Practice Squad

Posts : 0
Offline
« #37 : October 21, 2006, 01:50:49 PM »

If Gruden truly just needed "his QB" then I'm fine with that. If Grads is the guy, and the dynamic duo of Gruden and Grads makes us a perennial SuperBowl contender, I'll be a happy Buccs fan.

dbucfan

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 46231
Offline
« #38 : October 21, 2006, 01:53:48 PM »

Always tell folks the names on the back mean nothing - let's hope Gru and Grads can make it go.  Still feeling kinda empty for Simms though.  Hope he gets another real chance elsewhere.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

mjs020294

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 2245
Offline
« #39 : October 21, 2006, 01:53:55 PM »

 It bothers me that Coach appears to have tried to drive the square peg into the round hole - I would have thought he was smarter than that.  Not that much gray area between stubborn and stupid.  Right now I just don't like that Simms, a player who I thought was talented and could of been a 5-10 year qb for the team is gone, and surprise the bucs have another new qb.


They were in a bad position this off-season.  Simms did more than enough to win the hearts of the fans and he earned another year to prove himself.  They wanted to keep Griese  >:( but couldn't afford him.  ;D.  Luke McCown was meant to pressure Simms in TC and pres-season but injury killed that battle.  

I think the Bucs and Simms were all victims of circumstance.  Simms wasn't right for a Gruden offense and should never have been drafted by us.  The Bucs were pushed into a bad spot with injuries and lack of cap space last off season.

Hopefully Grads will progress and McCown will be a reliable back-up.  And Simms will hopefully find a team that can utilize his skill set a little better.


ABuccs Fan

*
Practice Squad

Posts : 0
Offline
« #40 : October 21, 2006, 01:56:34 PM »

It bothers me that Coach appears to have tried to drive the square peg into the round hole - I would have thought he was smarter than that.  Not that much gray area between stubborn and stupid.  Right now I just don't like that Simms, a player who I thought was talented and could of been a 5-10 year qb for the team is gone, and surprise the bucs have another new qb.


They were in a bad position this off-season.  Simms did more than enough to win the hearts of the fans and he earned another year to prove himself.  They wanted to keep Griese  >:( but couldn't afford him.  ;D.  Luke McCown was meant to pressure Simms in TC and pres-season but injury killed that battle. 

I think the Bucs and Simms were all victims of circumstance.  Simms wasn't right for a Gruden offense and should never have been drafted by us.  The Bucs were pushed into a bad spot with injuries and lack of cap space last off season.

Hopefully Grads will progress and McCown will be a reliable back-up.  And Simms will hopefully find a team that can utilize his skill set a little better.
You pretty much can't add anything to that. Good post!!!

BTownBucFan

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 5832
Online
« #41 : October 21, 2006, 02:02:25 PM »

I find it interesting that the 3 step drop is gone from the playbook now that Grads is playing.   All those batted passes Simms had with that 3 step drop and they stuck with it?   Then Grads comes in and they ditch that strategy completely?   Something seems fishy there.

Secondly, we did flood the field with WRs in the Saints game. When we did, it worked well except for dropped passes. Also, since the Saints game we have had 4 WRs active - against the Saints it was Galloway, Stovall, Clayton, Hilliard and against the Bengals it was Galloway, Clayton, Warren, Hilliard. If Stovall is back, I say flood the field with WRs. Hell, even if Warren is in there flood the field. It really worked well and looked good when we did it against the Saints.

go count played downs.   I hardley call that "flooding the field".  1 fricken play each game ... geesh

ABuccs Fan

*
Practice Squad

Posts : 0
Offline
« #42 : October 21, 2006, 02:05:06 PM »

I find it interesting that the 3 step drop is gone from the playbook now that Grads is playing.   All those batted passes Simms had with that 3 step drop and they stuck with it?   Then Grads comes in and they ditch that strategy completely?   Something seems fishy there.

It isn't gone, it just works with him. A lot of his throws in both the Saints and Bengals games were 3 step drops. He can actually complete the slants without it getting batted down. If I recall correctly, both TD passes he threw in the Bengals game were 3 step drops.

Secondly, we did flood the field with WRs in the Saints game. When we did, it worked well except for dropped passes. Also, since the Saints game we have had 4 WRs active - against the Saints it was Galloway, Stovall, Clayton, Hilliard and against the Bengals it was Galloway, Clayton, Warren, Hilliard. If Stovall is back, I say flood the field with WRs. Hell, even if Warren is in there flood the field. It really worked well and looked good when we did it against the Saints.
I guess I was watchin a different game then. The two deep passes to Galloway...he was the only WR.

mjs020294

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 2245
Offline
« #43 : October 21, 2006, 02:09:35 PM »

Haven't three of Grads's four TDs been from three step drops?  Actually there was also the Stovall TD that was ruled out.

SR mentioned something on his radio show this week.  When Grads gets into the redzone he seems to be more adept at finding the endzone, instead of leaving with FGs.  When the field gets tight Grads has the mental ability and poise to make a play.  SR seemed to think that is a key trait of all the great QB, the difference making between a winners and the rest.


dbucfan

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 46231
Offline
« #44 : October 21, 2006, 02:17:51 PM »

I don't agree with much if any of that historical revision.  Griese was lost with last year's contract, McCown has not shown anything anywhere so no one could count on him for jack.  All knew that Simms was the bucs hope for this year, or nothing.  And our potential conclusion is that Gruden was not smart enough/unwilling to tailor and to build around Simms, and then he took a look at Grads and found heaven????????  That is, if anywhere near accurate, scary.  

Well let's hope he is right in this decision, as his last brain cramp was  breath takingly stupid if the above conclusion is anywhere near right.  All that and you know I am a Gruden backer.

As to the TDs - were they?  and was that bc of field position?

SR said - again.  Okay let's play.  Based on what volumne of play and evidence can anyone make based upon almost 6 quarters of football.  So now he is adept at find ing the endzone and had a kety trait shared among all the great qbs.  Did he day anything about hitting three different dbacks in the chest with the ball, and fortunately found out that is why they are dbs, cuz they dropped the freaking ball.  That is just silly, my apologies to both you and SR in advance, but comparing a rookie 6th rounder with 6 quarters of NFL experience with great qbs is - forget it - someone else can fill in the blank. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant
  Page: 1 2 3 4
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  The Red Board (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Passive or Aggressive « previous next »
:  

Hide Tools Show Tools