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jbear

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#15 : May 10, 2011, 04:43:32 PM

The Personal Conduct Policy is not a collective bargained item. So chances are they'll be little problem enforcing it no matter when the trangressions occur. Question is...will the Bucs have enough guys available to fill out the 53 man.

But I believe it could be.  I know most unions have bargained for committees to handle employee disiplinary situations.  I've heard talk of a comittee of former players and team representatives being set up to disipline players.  The players are grown men and we've already heard plenty of grumbling from the players about the arbitrary punishments handed out by principal Goddell.  Any union would want to adress that kind of issue. 

There were lots of new things being discussed in this round of negotiations.

It could be. It hasn't been and was agreed to by both parties separate of the CBA. So it remains in force until it changes. So, at this point, the league can dish out the discipline. I seriously doubt it will be bargained down to "let's forget about all those knucklehead things done from March 2nd on". That is a pipe dream.

No I don't think thats likely either.  Even the players don't want idiots making the league look bad.  I just think it will come up and if changes are made it could make it a little easier for players to get off or get off easier than they were when Goddell just did whatever he damned well pleased.  In the past, if the players didn't agree they could appeal the commissioners decision and the commisioner would think about it again.   He'd say "Roger... do you agree with these people saying you made a mistake or do you agree with youself?"  "Ok self, you win."   

Sorry but thats a pretty dumb way to do things.

: May 10, 2011, 04:48:45 PM jbear

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#16 : May 10, 2011, 05:21:19 PM

The Personal Conduct Policy is not a collective bargained item. So chances are they'll be little problem enforcing it no matter when the transgressions occur. Question is...will the Bucs have enough guys available to fill out the 53 man.

Not at the rate they are going.

Learn to disagree without being disagreeable-Ronald Reagan circa 1981

tatmanfish

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#17 : May 10, 2011, 07:05:54 PM

this is going to be the issue once the lockout is over......The NFL is going to try to discipline all of these guys. The NFLPA is goinng to defend them all. The legal issue they will be facing is can they discipline players who werent under contract. If they werent under contract, they are not an employee. Therefor the NFL would have no business disciplining players who got in trouble during the lockout. Those who got in trouble before the lockout could. A business can discipline you for something you did while you werent an employee of their business. Not sure all the legal angles to either side, but these guys may not get in any trouble what so ever. Its going to be tough for the NFL to be able to anything, without a reasonably tough fight.

Id say that is going to be more than a little problem....especially considering theres been like 50 incidents this offseason.



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JDouble

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#18 : May 10, 2011, 08:15:41 PM

They will want to write it into the new CBA that they can punish players for actions taken during the lock out. If for some reason the Union fights that and they don't get it in there, then they can't do anything. I don't see why the Union would fight that though.


ISLAND BUCS

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#19 : May 10, 2011, 10:26:09 PM

Not quite sure about this. But during negotiations for one of the last two CBA's, a player did "something" and when the NFL tried to suspend him a game or
so he appealed, and rather than try to enforce it, the NFL just let it drop.

Anyone else have a memory of this??

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#20 : May 10, 2011, 11:05:01 PM

I think this is a number of Bucs fans hoping against hope that some Bucs players don't get suspended. Pending some issues with the Talib's legal situation....it's highly unlikely he won't be disciplined. I believe he'd need to be completely exonerated to escape a suspension and any justification of his actions won't come into play much.

Anyone catch Herm Edwards on King/David today...basically telling Raheem to let Talib go?

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#21 : May 10, 2011, 11:06:58 PM

So lets say, hypothetically, the case against Talib never makes it to trial. And lets say the NFL doesn't suspend Talib. Would you have any problem with him remaining a Buc?


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#22 : May 10, 2011, 11:08:52 PM

I'm all for Talib staying a Buc. Losing him would deal a big blow to a defense that is just beginning to piece itself together.


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#23 : May 10, 2011, 11:13:34 PM

So lets say, hypothetically, the case against Talib never makes it to trial. And lets say the NFL doesn't suspend Talib. Would you have any problem with him remaining a Buc?

If the question is being posed to me.....the answer is no...I'd have no problem with him remaining a Buc. I will say that it's a temporary situation as I do feel we're just awaiting the next blowup.

Happy and Peppy and Bursting with love.

TampaBucks05

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#24 : May 10, 2011, 11:16:24 PM

Its a question to all readers.... just trying to get a feel for he general mood towards Talib.


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#25 : May 10, 2011, 11:18:09 PM

I'd love for Talib to stay. but if we get a good trade offer id take it.

..

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#26 : May 10, 2011, 11:31:06 PM

I've kinda changed my stance on Talib.....kinda....

I still think we should trade his ass ASAP if we are lucky enough that he gets off, but if we keep him, I don't really care. He is a dumbass, I fully expect him to get into trouble again, and I would never buy his jersey, but even though I would rather have a team of stand up guys with a good heads on their shoulders....I know the reality is this is the NFL. It's always had idiots and it always will. When I step back and look at the bigger picture and I see some of the problems that former all time greats had, and I look at some of the more serious stuff you see today like Ben Rapistberger, or Stallworth running over and killing a man, or Brandon Marshall constantly beating his wife....I have to say that while annoying, childish, and dangerous...Talib's knucklehead actions are not that bad.

With this latest incident, I look at it like he was chillin at his family home, not out looking for trouble, and his family is a little ghetto...so there was some drama and he got involved. What he did was not really that bad. Some dude hitting my sister I would have **CENSORED**ed his world up too. He went a little over board with the whole chasing him down the street shooting at him, but I just don't hold this against him. To me, being out drunk off his ass and punching a cab driving then resisting arrest was waaaay worse than this most recent event.

As long as we have more good character guys than bad, and strong locker room leaders....I'm ok with having some idiots I suppose. It's the NFL. I think you have to be.

Same goes for TJax. You just have to have good depth, cause you know you can't depend on these guys.
: May 10, 2011, 11:33:58 PM JDouble


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#27 : May 10, 2011, 11:50:44 PM

The Personal Conduct Policy is not a collective bargained item. So chances are they'll be little problem enforcing it no matter when the trangressions occur. Question is...will the Bucs have enough guys available to fill out the 53 man.

This statement is misleading.  The personal conduct policy is a collectively bargained item, and in fact because it relates to employee discipline, it is a mandatory subject for collective bargaining under labor law.  The authority for the Commissioner's personal conduct policy comes in large part from the CBA, which allows Teams or the Commissioner to discipline players.  The grievance procedure for the personal conduct policy is in Section XI of the previous CBA, titled "Commissioner Discipline."  The biggest issue with the previous personal conduct policy, and something I am confident the players will ensure in a future agreement, is a change to the appeal procedure.  Currently, appeals are directly to the Commissioner, who of course made the initial decision in the first place.   That is effectively no appeal.  Most other leagues permit appeals to be heard by a third party neutral.

Anyway, I think it is an open issue as to whether players can be held accountable for actions while no CBA is in place.   I personally don't think they will be, assuming all issues are resolved prior to a new deal.  I also think that upon the signing of a new deal, both the players and the league will want to seem cooperative and focus on restarting the season--not going back and dinging players for bad behavior during the lockout. However, if Talib is still involved in the legal process, or even if he is serving probation when a new deal is in place, then the NFL might have something to base a suspension on and the motivation to act on it. 

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#28 : May 11, 2011, 12:15:27 AM

Its a question to all readers.... just trying to get a feel for he general mood towards Talib.

To be honest, I don't know what to think.  Clearly, he has shown bad judgement in the past.  That being said, no one knows what happened with this most recent incident.  I know lots of people have cited "facts" from the news articles, but if this goes to court it will be because the facts are in dispute.  The jury will decide what happened.  I think my biggest problem is not that I dislike his character (who am I to judge), but more that he seems to be an unreliable member of the team. And it is typically a bad idea to rely on unreliable people.   Guilty or not, he keeps finding his way in to trouble.  He could get off with no jail time, no suspension, and if he does, then I will be interested to see if he attempts to meaningfully change his life for the better.  If he does, then good for him.  If not, then I he will likely be out of a job with even bigger problems on his plate.

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#29 : May 11, 2011, 12:24:05 AM

I think the more pertinent answer should be can they if he is acquitted of defense's accusation?  If he did not commit any crime, he cannot be disciplined.  And it was his sister he was going to, not one of his buddies.  So what can Goodell do at that point?

NOTHING.



Not true B

It's about putting yourself in bad situations, even if your not exactly breaking the law.  I think Pacman for instance, never broke the law per se, but put himself in bad situations over and over again.  He still got suspended, several times IIRC.  So bottom line, you dont need a conviction to get suspended.


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PewterReportMC....
\\\\\\\"Java, do you understand this a perfect example of why people beg me to suspend or ban you on a daily basis? Are you actually trying to make a point? Seriously what is the reason for even commenting. In fact why do you even bother coming to the boards? What happened to the intelligent poster from years ago?  A real shame. Like the Bucs yesterday, a wasted effort.\\\\\\\"
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