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threadkiller

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#30 : October 11, 2011, 11:58:12 AM

So, you think that was a good play call? Did you see the three defenders all aound him when he caught the ball? Did you see the safety with a full head of steam hit him just as he caught the ball?

Yes.  I'm assuming that was called from the sideline and not an audible/sight adjustment.  We're having a hell of a time moving the football.  Any play call that results in a 9 yard gain is a good call for us.  This is the NFL, there are usually guys around the football when it's caught, and if it's underneath and moving toward the middle of the field, usually multiple guys.  Especially when teams have no fear of our run game w/out Blount and/or cue on our personel/formations (which is a huge problem for our oc).  Have we run a double move all season with a wide out?  If so I don't remember it. 


I'm not making excuses for Mike Williams, he should have held onto the ball, but c'mon, man. Do you think WR's are supposed to get hit at full speed as soon as they catch the ball?

The safety jumped it for sure, and the lb was moving that way.  We didn't have anyone else on that side of the field for the lb anyway.  The back might have been leaking out, but was late doing it.  He's the only thing that would have held the lb from moving that way, and our rbs out of the backfield are not a huge threat.  Mike caught and turned and took a step or two upfield.  He saw the hit coming and took a hand off the football.  Good play by the safety, but not an uncommon hit for a receiver to take. 


I'm not smart enough to figure out what's wrong with our offense.  It's probably a bunch of stuff combined.  Our line has played better through 5 games then I expected.  Are they playing well, or are we hiding their weakness?  We're not throwing the ball down field, is that because our oc sucks, or receivers can't get open down the field, or we're scared to have Josh hold the ball?  Idk.  We're not getting guys open very often.  Again, bad oc or bad receivers?  I don't think Olson is a monumentally bad coordinator, but he sure doesn't appear to have any good answers right now.  Freeman is struggling for sure.  From what I've seen though he's hasn't thrown any more bad balls then last year.  He's getting lots of drops.  He probably should have seen the cb on his first pick, but the guy dropped coverage and sat right where Josh was going to throw.  I don't believe that is eye discipline.  Either he knew what was coming or the dc called a great disguised zone coverage. 

alldaway

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#31 : October 11, 2011, 12:30:58 PM

Benn isn't playing optimally right now, but he is ahead of Williams in his overall game.  Both players need to work on their hands, but Benn receives a lot of unwarranted flack for some odd reason.  It is Williams that needs to work on beating jams, and running crisper routes not Benn.

RHBucsFan

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#32 : October 11, 2011, 12:36:39 PM

Williams isn't getting double/triple teamed! ...smh (eyeroll)
How many players does the Defense get??!? 15??


MAMMOGRAMS = MOTORBOATING


That's the New Campaign!!

Triple teamed.

Link: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d822fb761/49ers-defense-fumble-recovery

Man, all I can think when I see that video is that I WISH we had a physical player on our Defense like Goldson. I really miss the days of John Lynch laying the lumber out there.

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#33 : October 11, 2011, 12:39:16 PM

Williams needs to hold on to the ball when it's thrown to him.

threadkiller

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#34 : October 11, 2011, 12:47:11 PM

Man, all I can think when I see that video is that I WISH we had a physical player on our Defense like Goldson. I really miss the days of John Lynch laying the lumber out there.

That doesn't pay anymore.  Mike was a little late going to the ground, but he was starting that way.  Fraction of a second later and Goldson's shoulder catches mike in the helmet.  We've got the ball and 15 extra yards (and Goldson is light in the pocket this week).  I hate the new rules, but the way they're calling them a hard hitting safeties are going to be a thing of the past.  Teams will be going for guys who ball hawk and wrap up when needed.  You probably heard Fererra (sp?) on the telecast, he wanted that called incomplete on the field.  Had the play been called the way the league wants it, that would have been at best (for the defense) an incomplete pass.  More often then not now, they will find some way to penalize that hit because it's almost exactly what the league office wants to take out of football. 

bucs449

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#35 : October 11, 2011, 01:11:40 PM

The offense was supposed to carry this team


Why is that?   Because the defensive coordinator is incompetent?     The entire defensive line is first or second round picks, the corners are a first round pick and a future hall of famer.   Its not like there isn't talent on that D.
Believe me, I am just as pissed with the defensive performance as the next fan. It has been terrible at times. Letting Alex Smith and Curtis Painter torch the secondary has been embarassing. There is talent on the D, but the offense was supposed to carry this team because that is what they did last year. This team is supposed to have the next great set of triplets in Freeman, Blount, and Williams, with a pretty good O line and a great tight end. I have not seen anything from the offense this year, except when they run the **CENSORED**ing ball which is what I think most of the fans want to see more of. I blame the coaching by both Morris and Olson and they both need to do a better job, but Olson has been terrible and he hasn't put his guys into a position to just play ball and be successful, which is the job of the coach. Olson is not using his players the right way IMO and I keep saying this, but the Bucs need to run the ball more and all the other problems with this team will get corrected. You can't deny that the players have great respect for the coaching staff and they go all out for them, but the coaching staff has been poor in keeping the players disciplined and calling proper plays. That needs to change on both sides of the ball, but it is the offense's job to carry this team because of 5.
: October 11, 2011, 01:16:44 PM bucs449

threadkiller

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#36 : October 11, 2011, 04:09:21 PM

[Olson is not using his players the right way IMO and I keep saying this, but the Bucs need to run the ball more and all the other problems with this team will get corrected.

I don't really disagree with this, but I can't tell.  All I see is the t.v. coverage, which makes it hard as hell to see what the receivers are doing most plays.  I know we're seldom getting the ball 15+ yards down field in the air, and when we do it's at least 50/50 brokenish play type stuff.  When I do get shots from behind on replay I see a lot of covered receivers.  Receivers running accross the field through zone from one defender to another without ever sitting in a hole to make themselves available.  They just keep running until they hit the sideline or Josh gets hurried and sacked or thows the ball away.  Or just flat covered in man to man.  We try short quick stuff to the wideouts that gets blown up more often then it works.  Probably because teams have little fear of our play action and none of us burning them deep (maybe the most damaging to our offense?).  I'd love to see us throw a fly route once or twice a game for **CENSORED**s and grins if nothing else.  But who do you throw it to?  Mike was great last year about getting up over people and taking balls over defenders.  He wasn't wide open a ton last year but made great contested catches.  Josh doesn't seem to have that same confidence to give Mike a chance this season.  He's seeing some double teams, but it's not like teams are doubling him every snap.  For the people at the games, is Benn getting open deep in a decent ammount of time? 

I don't think we have a run game that we can lean on with any consistency.  It's been far and away best late in games, but that doesn't help us much with our slow starts.  When we go run/run we're looking at 3rd and 6+ most of the time.  With our receivers issues with drops, it's hard for us to convert those with any consistency (even when the other teams don't appear to know what we're running before we do).  I said our line is playing better then I thought they would, but they're by no means blowing teams off the ball.  What we're getting is primarily what Blount can get after first contact (much like last season tbh). 

I'd like to say that it's as simple as Olson sucks and if we get a good coordinator we're back in playoff contention.  I'm not sure that's the case though.   What ever you think we should be doing differently probably requires a receiver to beat at least one defender and I'm not seeing guys do that with any consistency right now.  Hard to expect an oc to scheme a wide open receiver on every passing play. 

bucs449

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#37 : October 11, 2011, 04:56:50 PM

What the Bucs are missing right now on Offense is someone who can blow the top off of a Defense. That would open up all the underneath stuff where I think all the Bucs recievers excel.

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#38 : October 11, 2011, 08:28:26 PM

What the Bucs are missing right now on Offense is someone who can blow the top off of a Defense. That would open up all the underneath stuff where I think all the Bucs recievers excel.

Been saying this since last year. This team lacks serious speedon both sides of the ball. Defense can play zone all day against the predictable routes the Bucs run and not worry about any of the WR's blowing by them as there is no one with enough speed for defenses to fear.

Formerly known as T

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GoldsonAges

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#39 : October 11, 2011, 09:14:03 PM

You put up a respectable argument. I do have a few more counter points for you. Just remember, I'm looking at it from a WR perspective because I used to play that position.


So, you think that was a good play call? Did you see the three defenders all aound him when he caught the ball? Did you see the safety with a full head of steam hit him just as he caught the ball?

 Yes.  I'm assuming that was called from the sideline and not an audible/sight adjustment.  We're having a hell of a time moving the football.  Any play call that results in a 9 yard gain is a good call for us.  What is your opinion of a play call that results in the ball being dislodged immediately after the catch by a safety who looks like Ronnie Lott on crack?

This is the NFL, there are usually guys around the football when it's caught, and if it's underneath and moving toward the middle of the field, usually multiple guys. That might be a good reason to avoid that area of the field, or mix in a double move, or a pump fake, or both.


teams have no fear of our run game w/out Blount and/or cue on our personel/formations (which is a huge problem for our oc).   It's the OC who is supposed to put players into position to make plays. Our OC creates the personnel/formations, so it's all on him for not having the proper personnel in the proper formations. If they can't teach Blount to play in the 2 minute offense that problem falls clearly on the shoulder of the coaches. Also, EG has been running the ball pretty well out of those formations with the limited touches he has. He averaged 6 YPC vs. SF.


Have we run a double move all season with a wide out?  If so I don't remember it.   Great point. I wondered the same thing. Maybe the OC should draw up some plays with some double moves in them? I can't think of any other way it is going to happen.





Mike Glennon
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