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alldaway

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#15 : November 01, 2011, 03:58:18 PM

For those interested in being educated here is some links:

http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/
http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/

BucNY

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#16 : November 01, 2011, 04:27:37 PM

Nice links alldaway, thanks.

Here is what I know. My original post, as i have admitted, was full of assumptions. I really had no idea the guy's story. But here is what I feel should be the way it goes. You have a big house, a nice car, etc... Great for you. If fall on hard times where you can't pay your bills or can't feed your family you should be able to get some temporary help. No problem with that. But explain to me why exactly you should be able to hold on to those expensive possessions all the while receiving benefits that could very well be paid for out of your own pocket if you sold, your house, car etc...

Now I agree with a previous poster. The system is not perfect, is it completely broken? I'm not sure. But I do know that there cannot possible enough staff to check on every claim that comes in for all types of benefits which leads to people getting these benefits without proper back ground checks. That is LIKELY what my friend at the grocery store was doing. Sure he could have been borrowing the car but I find that less likely.

One more thing alldaway. There is often a large discrepancy from the letter of the law to how these things actually pan out. The laws are great, enforcing everyone to abide by those laws are what is difficult and allows abuser to continue on.

\\\\\\\"This forum needs a poster like BucNY now more than ever\\\\\\\"
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#17 : November 01, 2011, 08:16:24 PM

lol, theres a huge amount of things like this going on whether the guy in story did or not. To think its not is naive. I know a guy that owns a furniture store and makes a small profit, but not as much as one would hope for. he lives in a less than stellar neighborhood. He has directly talked to 5 different people that all are scamming the system. The mother has a few kids but claims to not know who the father is. The father often still lives with the family but there is no record of him being the father. Being in that situation, they can file for section 8 housing which cover a large portion/all of there rent and utilities. Being section 8, they can also easily get food stamps or at the very least WIC.

So, nearly all their bills are paid and they also get some free food out of the deal. One of these 5 people are driving an $80,000 Mercedes, but its in the fathers name and he says he doesnt reside in the home but just stays there from time to time. Its all a joke because nothing is done about it even when the its as obvious as an $80,000 car sitting in the driveway of a section 8 property.




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#18 : November 01, 2011, 08:40:43 PM

My cousin got a 500k govt roofing contract in deltona.. Spent 50k on materials, then lost it all when he couldnt get enough experienced roofers in the area to take the roofing job. their reason.. caust the govt contractor would force them to be documented, ths forgoing the unemployment compensation they were receiving. They wanted pay under the table so as not to lose unemp. benefits.. (looks like BO is buying votes)


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#19 : November 01, 2011, 08:46:17 PM

lol, theres a huge amount of things like this going on whether the guy in story did or not. To think its not is naive. I know a guy that owns a furniture store and makes a small profit, but not as much as one would hope for. he lives in a less than stellar neighborhood. He has directly talked to 5 different people that all are scamming the system. The mother has a few kids but claims to not know who the father is. The father often still lives with the family but there is no record of him being the father. Being in that situation, they can file for section 8 housing which cover a large portion/all of there rent and utilities. Being section 8, they can also easily get food stamps or at the very least WIC.

So, nearly all their bills are paid and they also get some free food out of the deal. One of these 5 people are driving an $80,000 Mercedes, but its in the fathers name and he says he doesnt reside in the home but just stays there from time to time. Its all a joke because nothing is done about it even when the its as obvious as an $80,000 car sitting in the driveway of a section 8 property.

The Middle Class married family is the ones taking it on the chin.. I pay $1,800 per month for daycare on 2 kids.. My wife's co-worker has 5 kids in the same daycare and lives with the baby daddy, but not married.. she pays 400 total and gets foodstamps..She is an insurance agent and the dad is a firefighter.. Its makes me want to puke.


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#20 : November 01, 2011, 09:01:51 PM

lol, theres a huge amount of things like this going on whether the guy in story did or not. To think its not is naive. I know a guy that owns a furniture store and makes a small profit, but not as much as one would hope for. he lives in a less than stellar neighborhood. He has directly talked to 5 different people that all are scamming the system. The mother has a few kids but claims to not know who the father is. The father often still lives with the family but there is no record of him being the father. Being in that situation, they can file for section 8 housing which cover a large portion/all of there rent and utilities. Being section 8, they can also easily get food stamps or at the very least WIC.

So, nearly all their bills are paid and they also get some free food out of the deal. One of these 5 people are driving an $80,000 Mercedes, but its in the fathers name and he says he doesnt reside in the home but just stays there from time to time. Its all a joke because nothing is done about it even when the its as obvious as an $80,000 car sitting in the driveway of a section 8 property.

This is unpossible.  In this very thread, I read ADW's post saying they are checked up on every 6 months and are re-evaluated based on their economic conditions.  He was educating us peons.


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#21 : November 01, 2011, 09:33:35 PM

Actually, you are mistaken/  They do follow up and check.

I hear a lot of comments about nicely dressed people,living in nice home and driving nice cars with HD TV, cable, internet etc who are getting food stamps.   That would describe our household.  However, I lost my business due to a legal but unethical business decision my home office made.  My son-in-law was laid off, my daughter needs double knee surgery and cannot work.  However, before this, I made an annual six figure income.  We need the internet to take care of our affairs.  We used neighborhood wifi until they required a password.

Other people make comments when they see people with full grocery carts on food stamps which they assume means they are eating v ery very well.  Actually, most people on food stamps barely eat enough on food stamps.
Those big filled carts you see is because the family ran out of everything and ate ramen noodles for a week until their next month's food stamps come in.  Or had cereal for dinner.

Nobody from the former working middle class who is struggling right now wants their neighbors or friends to know what is going on.   That is one of the curses of the middle class or middle incomed.  Shame and keeping up with appearances.  The fact is these families do not have their cable hooked up ( we don't )  Only use their AC at night to sleep well.  Keep lights off.  Never go out to dinner, movies etc.  Must plan trips using car so that gas lasts.  That great car we have only uses premium but at least the car is paid for

I humbly use some of my circumstances to educate those of you who apparently have no idea  of the real, human suffering and despair going on in this country.  You think you know what it is you are seeing but you have no clue.
Are there people misusing the system.  Uh, duh.  However, it is unlikely you know who it is without knowing the people personally....

To me a sign of great people is compassion, generosity and the knowledge that we are all part of the human family.  .even those abusing the system are worthy of compassion.  imagine leading a life trying to always game authority and help that has been given.  This cannot be a life well lived, nor folks living in harmony and perhaps need our compassion to help them recover their dignity and become partners with the rest of us on Turtle Island.
Just sayin....



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#22 : November 01, 2011, 09:55:28 PM

Actually, you are mistaken/  They do follow up and check.

I hear a lot of comments about nicely dressed people,living in nice home and driving nice cars with HD TV, cable, internet etc who are getting food stamps.   That would describe our household.  However, I lost my business due to a legal but unethical business decision my home office made.  My son-in-law was laid off, my daughter needs double knee surgery and cannot work.  However, before this, I made an annual six figure income.  We need the internet to take care of our affairs.  We used neighborhood wifi until they required a password.

Other people make comments when they see people with full grocery carts on food stamps which they assume means they are eating v ery very well.  Actually, most people on food stamps barely eat enough on food stamps.
Those big filled carts you see is because the family ran out of everything and ate ramen noodles for a week until their next month's food stamps come in.  Or had cereal for dinner.

Nobody from the former working middle class who is struggling right now wants their neighbors or friends to know what is going on.   That is one of the curses of the middle class or middle incomed.  Shame and keeping up with appearances.  The fact is these families do not have their cable hooked up ( we don't )  Only use their AC at night to sleep well.  Keep lights off.  Never go out to dinner, movies etc.  Must plan trips using car so that gas lasts.  That great car we have only uses premium but at least the car is paid for

I humbly use some of my circumstances to educate those of you who apparently have no idea  of the real, human suffering and despair going on in this country.  You think you know what it is you are seeing but you have no clue.
Are there people misusing the system.  Uh, duh.  However, it is unlikely you know who it is without knowing the people personally....

To me a sign of great people is compassion, generosity and the knowledge that we are all part of the human family.  .even those abusing the system are worthy of compassion.  imagine leading a life trying to always game authority and help that has been given.  This cannot be a life well lived, nor folks living in harmony and perhaps need our compassion to help them recover their dignity and become partners with the rest of us on Turtle Island.
Just sayin....

Well said, Ladyfan. Some people seem to think that you must be living in a plywood shack or under a bridge to be deemed worthy enough to deserve help. People abuse the system, but that doesn't mean the system doesn't work. The "limousine welfare queen" image is often trotted out as an excuse to claim welfare needs to be gutted or eliminated, as though the majority of recipients fall into that category. The truth is that all it does is give people an excuse to turn a blind eye to the fact that America has a real issue with poverty and hunger. Fraud or no fraud, the extremely limited amount of resources that we Americans allocate to helping the poor help make this issue less severe than it would be without them.
: November 01, 2011, 09:59:17 PM CBWx2


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#23 : November 01, 2011, 10:10:28 PM

Fraud or no fraud, the extremely limited amount of resources that we Americans allocate to helping the poor

Where does America rank among other countries in money given to the poor, foreign and domestic?


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#24 : November 01, 2011, 10:24:49 PM

BucNY:

I started a thread very similar to this awhile back and got the same bullcrap sympathetic, devil's advocate type responses.  I live in Atlanta and I'd estimate that more than half the time I go to the grocery store, the person in front of me uses some sort of government assistance to pay for their overfilled cart of namebrand unhealthy food.  Its a joke.

I'm totally against handouts from the government, but if we're going to do it, can we at least limit it to cheaper, non-name brand stuff?  The guy with no job, food stamps and a nice car isn't on a budget when he goes to the store.  That's only for the working people.

I've seen people use food stamps and get into all sorts of nice new cars.  I guess there's a bunch of people out there just doing community service for the poor!  That explains it!


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#25 : November 01, 2011, 10:26:06 PM

Fraud or no fraud, the extremely limited amount of resources that we Americans allocate to helping the poor

Where does America rank among other countries in money given to the poor, foreign and domestic?

Well, first of all, I think it's interesting that this was the only portion of the last two comments that you found to be relevant. Secondly, why would we add foreign aid into the equation when it is domestic aid that is the topic of dispute? It wasn't someone from Bangladesh that was seen entering a Cadillac after using food stamps. And thirdly, the US allocates roughly 11% of GDP to social programs. Most European and Asian countries allocate around double that amount.


Snook

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#26 : November 01, 2011, 10:38:14 PM

Actually, you are mistaken/  They do follow up and check.

I hear a lot of comments about nicely dressed people,living in nice home and driving nice cars with HD TV, cable, internet etc who are getting food stamps.   That would describe our household.  However, I lost my business due to a legal but unethical business decision my home office made.  My son-in-law was laid off, my daughter needs double knee surgery and cannot work.  However, before this, I made an annual six figure income.  We need the internet to take care of our affairs.  We used neighborhood wifi until they required a password.

Other people make comments when they see people with full grocery carts on food stamps which they assume means they are eating v ery very well.  Actually, most people on food stamps barely eat enough on food stamps.
Those big filled carts you see is because the family ran out of everything and ate ramen noodles for a week until their next month's food stamps come in.  Or had cereal for dinner.

Nobody from the former working middle class who is struggling right now wants their neighbors or friends to know what is going on.   That is one of the curses of the middle class or middle incomed.  Shame and keeping up with appearances.  The fact is these families do not have their cable hooked up ( we don't )  Only use their AC at night to sleep well.  Keep lights off.  Never go out to dinner, movies etc.  Must plan trips using car so that gas lasts.  That great car we have only uses premium but at least the car is paid for

I humbly use some of my circumstances to educate those of you who apparently have no idea  of the real, human suffering and despair going on in this country.  You think you know what it is you are seeing but you have no clue.
Are there people misusing the system.  Uh, duh.  However, it is unlikely you know who it is without knowing the people personally....

To me a sign of great people is compassion, generosity and the knowledge that we are all part of the human family.  .even those abusing the system are worthy of compassion.  imagine leading a life trying to always game authority and help that has been given.  This cannot be a life well lived, nor folks living in harmony and perhaps need our compassion to help them recover their dignity and become partners with the rest of us on Turtle Island.
Just sayin....

With all due respect, Ladyfan, I'd like to make a few comments...

If you have an HDTV but are in need of money.... SELL IT.   Buy a cheaper TV on craigslist and pocket the difference.  That's too easy. 

And your claim about people on food stamps having to eat ramen noodles til their next stamps came in?  Really???  That explains a lot.  They can't budget their own money... why would they be able to budget their food stamps?  Its really sad how people in this country have no idea what the word "sacrifice" means. 

If I were to ever fall on hard times, I'd be selling all unnecessary items in my home.  First would be the HDTVs.  Not a hard decision.  Leach off the government or sell TVs...  Unfortunately, most Americans choose leach. 

And if the premium gas is too much to pay, how bout selling that "nice" car and buying a more economical one?  Again, pocket the difference.

You mention the "real human suffering" going on in this country.  Sorry, but no one is truly suffering while driving a nice car and owning HDTVs.  If they were, they'd have the sense to sell what they have to stay afloat... not rely on the government and still keep their "nice" things.  Give me a break.


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#27 : November 01, 2011, 10:40:14 PM

Actually, you are mistaken/  They do follow up and check.

I hear a lot of comments about nicely dressed people,living in nice home and driving nice cars with HD TV, cable, internet etc who are getting food stamps.   That would describe our household.  However, I lost my business due to a legal but unethical business decision my home office made.  My son-in-law was laid off, my daughter needs double knee surgery and cannot work.  However, before this, I made an annual six figure income.  We need the internet to take care of our affairs.  We used neighborhood wifi until they required a password.

Other people make comments when they see people with full grocery carts on food stamps which they assume means they are eating v ery very well.  Actually, most people on food stamps barely eat enough on food stamps.
Those big filled carts you see is because the family ran out of everything and ate ramen noodles for a week until their next month's food stamps come in.  Or had cereal for dinner.

Nobody from the former working middle class who is struggling right now wants their neighbors or friends to know what is going on.   That is one of the curses of the middle class or middle incomed.  Shame and keeping up with appearances.  The fact is these families do not have their cable hooked up ( we don't )  Only use their AC at night to sleep well.  Keep lights off.  Never go out to dinner, movies etc.  Must plan trips using car so that gas lasts.  That great car we have only uses premium but at least the car is paid for

I humbly use some of my circumstances to educate those of you who apparently have no idea  of the real, human suffering and despair going on in this country.  You think you know what it is you are seeing but you have no clue.
Are there people misusing the system.  Uh, duh.  However, it is unlikely you know who it is without knowing the people personally....

To me a sign of great people is compassion, generosity and the knowledge that we are all part of the human family.  .even those abusing the system are worthy of compassion.  imagine leading a life trying to always game authority and help that has been given.  This cannot be a life well lived, nor folks living in harmony and perhaps need our compassion to help them recover their dignity and become partners with the rest of us on Turtle Island.
Just sayin....

With all due respect, Ladyfan, I'd like to make a few comments...

If you have an HDTV but are in need of money.... SELL IT.   Buy a cheaper TV on craigslist and pocket the difference.  That's too easy. 

And your claim about people on food stamps having to eat ramen noodles til their next stamps came in?  Really???  That explains a lot.  They can't budget their own money... why would they be able to budget their food stamps?  Its really sad how people in this country have no idea what the word "sacrifice" means. 

If I were to ever fall on hard times, I'd be selling all unnecessary items in my home.  First would be the HDTVs.  Not a hard decision.  Leach off the government or sell TVs...  Unfortunately, most Americans choose leach. 

And if the premium gas is too much to pay, how bout selling that "nice" car and buying a more economical one?  Again, pocket the difference.

You mention the "real human suffering" going on in this country.  Sorry, but no one is truly suffering while driving a nice car and owning HDTVs.  If they were, they'd have the sense to sell what they have to stay afloat... not rely on the government and still keep their "nice" things.  Give me a break.

What happens when you run out of things to sell? What happens when the cheaper car you bought after you sold your reliable one takes a crap? When do you sell enough things to be worthy of receiving help? Like I said. Get rid of everything and move into a plywood shack, and then MAYBE a conservative will not judge you for asking for help. Maybe...
: November 01, 2011, 10:43:34 PM CBWx2


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#28 : November 01, 2011, 10:45:52 PM

Well said, Ladyfan. Some people seem to think that you must be living in a plywood shack or under a bridge to be deemed worthy enough to deserve help. People abuse the system, but that doesn't mean the system doesn't work. The "limousine welfare queen" image is often trotted out as an excuse to claim welfare needs to be gutted or eliminated, as though the majority of recipients fall into that category. The truth is that all it does is give people an excuse to turn a blind eye to the fact that America has a real issue with poverty and hunger. Fraud or no fraud, the extremely limited amount of resources that we Americans allocate to helping the poor help make this issue less severe than it would be without them.


I have more respect for the guy living in a shack or under a bridge on government help than I do for the guy living in a nice house with a nice car and HDTVs on government help.  And the guy under the bridge is most likely getting LESS help. 



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#29 : November 01, 2011, 10:55:54 PM

What happens when you run out of things to sell? What happens when the cheaper car you bought after you sold your reliable one takes a crap? When do you sell enough things to be worthy of receiving help? Like I said. Get rid of everything and move into a plywood shack, and then MAYBE a conservative will not judge you for asking for help. Maybe...

Its usually the ones who attack others for "assuming" that do most of the assuming.  I'm far from conservative.  I'm also far from liberal.  But, nice try. 

What happens when I run out of things to sell?  Well, first of all, the money I'd get from selling off everything would go much further than the example of people on food stamps having to eat ramen noodles until their next food stamp re-fill.  If times were truly "tough", wouldn't you be eating ramen noodles MOST of the time anyways?  I would.  I wouldn't be buying the more expensive name brand foods that I see food stampers fill their carts with.

As for the repairs on that cheaper car... they'd be cheaper than the repairs on that car that requires premium gas.  That's pretty clear.  I didn't say buy a $100 car.  But if the car you're driving now requires 93 octane, its probably not a crappy car.  Look up how much Honda Civics sell for.  Not a bad deal -- and they get great gas mileage.  And they're proven reliable.  And cheap to fix.

Again, too much sense.  Its easier just to throw government money at the problem.  That way, no one has to actually sacrifice.

And one more thing... if I lost my job tomorrow, I'd be good for awhile without having to sell anything right away.  How's that?  Pretty simple.  I SAVE money.  I live below my means.  I live in a house 1/3 of the price I could technically "afford".  I drive a 13 year old Toyota with 225k miles on it.  Sometimes, I actually try to look for cars older than mine.  I don't see too many.  Times can't be too bad if your car is new.  Last time I checked, newer cars cost a lot of money and car payments eat up cash.

My family budgets its money correctly.  We save first before we spend anything each month.  I don't buy anything unless I have the actually CASH for it.  Its pretty simple.  Its called SACRIFICE. 
: November 01, 2011, 11:01:26 PM SnookAU

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