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BucNY

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#435 : March 20, 2013, 09:17:14 AM

Just out of curiosity, how much money out of your wallet do you think goes to pay for food stamps? I'll give you a hint. The average person probably loses more in the cushion's of their couch in a given week.

The amount doesn't matter significantly to me. What  matters is people abusing the system, getting benefits they don't deserve. Per person the cost may be fairly low. When you account all welfare type benefits nationwide, that number is not low.

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spartan

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#436 : March 20, 2013, 10:29:20 AM

Focus on the banksters and corporate thieves that have stolen untold wealth from the average Joe then come back and have a conversation about some poor schmuck buying a slice of baloney.

Corporate welfare needs to go faster than anything, agreed , however I don't think government should be in the business of feeding people either . DOes that mean people should starve ? Of course not.

Hey, I agree with you. It  doesn't mean that people should starve, Generalissimo. It just means that people will starve.

If the program was used simply to put food on the table for those who cannot afford it, I don't think people would roll their eyes so much, but it isn't is it?

I don't think I agree with Dolorous 100% but he does raise a very good point in that the increase of Govt dependency reduces the amount of charity and giving. Look at Europe, the general attitude is that when there is social problem, it's the Govt's job to solve it. Look around the USA and you still see charitable organizations running on donations and volunteers filling all kinds of needs. Not only does it serve a purpose but it makes you appreciate what you have, and the recipients have a tendency to have less of an entitlement mentality. For example, I see it whenever I go down to the Orlando Union Rescue Mission. From my side, seeing people being honestly grateful and working hard to sort themselves out makes you want to do more. The end result is they get more help and we, the volunteers work harder.

BucNY

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#437 : March 20, 2013, 10:34:57 AM

Focus on the banksters and corporate thieves that have stolen untold wealth from the average Joe then come back and have a conversation about some poor schmuck buying a slice of baloney.

Corporate welfare needs to go faster than anything, agreed , however I don't think government should be in the business of feeding people either . DOes that mean people should starve ? Of course not.

Hey, I agree with you. It  doesn't mean that people should starve, Generalissimo. It just means that people will starve.

If the program was used simply to put food on the table for those who cannot afford it, I don't think people would roll their eyes so much, but it isn't is it?

I don't think I agree with Dolorous 100% but he does raise a very good point in that the increase of Govt dependency reduces the amount of charity and giving. Look at Europe, the general attitude is that when there is social problem, it's the Govt's job to solve it. Look around the USA and you still see charitable organizations running on donations and volunteers filling all kinds of needs. Not only does it serve a purpose but it makes you appreciate what you have, and the recipients have a tendency to have less of an entitlement mentality. For example, I see it whenever I go down to the Orlando Union Rescue Mission. From my side, seeing people being honestly grateful and working hard to sort themselves out makes you want to do more. The end result is they get more help and we, the volunteers work harder.

It's a great point that in other countries the Government acts as the supporting unit for people down on their luck so to speak. That idea is gaining ground in the US. People simply are taking less responsibility for themselves. That gentleman that posted a picture of his car. He's right we have no idea how he got it, maybe his parents bought it for him, maybe his uncle, who knows. What we do know is that whoever bought the thing for him has desposable income and felt the need to buy him a car but apparently didn't feel the need to give him a place to live until he gets back on his feet.

My grandfather owned a farm long before I was born. When the winter came and things got tough, cousins from all over would come for help. He would put em up and feed them. The men would work the farm and the women would help cook and clean, etc.. When the family found another job they moved on. That just doesn't happen anymore. When people fall on tough times, fewer and fewer people look to family for help. Rather they ask the government for help.

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Dolorous Jason

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#438 : March 20, 2013, 04:31:16 PM

Focus on the banksters and corporate thieves that have stolen untold wealth from the average Joe then come back and have a conversation about some poor schmuck buying a slice of baloney.

Corporate welfare needs to go faster than anything, agreed , however I don't think government should be in the business of feeding people either . DOes that mean people should starve ? Of course not.

Hey, I agree with you. It  doesn't mean that people should starve, Generalissimo. It just means that people will starve.

If the program was used simply to put food on the table for those who cannot afford it, I don't think people would roll their eyes so much, but it isn't is it?

I don't think I agree with Dolorous 100% but he does raise a very good point in that the increase of Govt dependency reduces the amount of charity and giving. Look at Europe, the general attitude is that when there is social problem, it's the Govt's job to solve it. Look around the USA and you still see charitable organizations running on donations and volunteers filling all kinds of needs. Not only does it serve a purpose but it makes you appreciate what you have, and the recipients have a tendency to have less of an entitlement mentality. For example, I see it whenever I go down to the Orlando Union Rescue Mission. From my side, seeing people being honestly grateful and working hard to sort themselves out makes you want to do more. The end result is they get more help and we, the volunteers work harder.

It's a great point that in other countries the Government acts as the supporting unit for people down on their luck so to speak. That idea is gaining ground in the US. People simply are taking less responsibility for themselves. That gentleman that posted a picture of his car. He's right we have no idea how he got it, maybe his parents bought it for him, maybe his uncle, who knows. What we do know is that whoever bought the thing for him has desposable income and felt the need to buy him a car but apparently didn't feel the need to give him a place to live until he gets back on his feet.

My grandfather owned a farm long before I was born. When the winter came and things got tough, cousins from all over would come for help. He would put em up and feed them. The men would work the farm and the women would help cook and clean, etc.. When the family found another job they moved on. That just doesn't happen anymore. When people fall on tough times, fewer and fewer people look to family for help. Rather they ask the government for help.

Exactly right guys.

It really all does become a self-fufilling prophecy . The more people come to expect government to take care of every need , the less they expect to have to do it themselves , and this sense of entitlement leads them to believe there is no other acceptable way to approach such problems.

We already lead the world in charitable donations , but he really believes we would all just sit idly by while our neighbors starve if we didn't have the government to steal the extra "$16.50" ( by his count ). A $16.50 that feeds less people after it filters through a gigantic government bureaucracy than it would if you handed it to the poor person directly.

But ideas like this are a completely foriegn concept to Useful Idiots like CBW. To him government is always the way.

Sad really . Your thoughts on the human race are pretty low if you think complulsion and force is the only way to get us to help one another...

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

dbucfan

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#439 : March 20, 2013, 10:06:11 PM

Focus on the banksters and corporate thieves that have stolen untold wealth from the average Joe then come back and have a conversation about some poor schmuck buying a slice of baloney.
Focus - I wish they could.  And no one who is stealing should be ignored - regardless of the size of the operation.

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

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#440 : March 20, 2013, 10:08:34 PM

The way to solve the hunger problem in America, have every poor person track down a relative with a farm. If they don't have one, maybe we can start a "Big Brother" type program where a farmer adopts a poor person to use as labor until he can get back on his feet again. Oh...wait...that would be government intervention. Okay, scratch that. I'm sure the farmers will take it upon themselves to stroll the inner cities to find starving poor people to adopt. You guys are freaking hilarious. Thanks man. I needed a good laugh today.


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#441 : March 20, 2013, 10:31:05 PM

Sad really . Your thoughts on the human race are pretty low if you think complulsion and force is the only way to get us to help one another...

How good were the poor and hungry doing in America prior to the food stamp program being created, Delirious Smurf? How well was that benevolent American spirit addressing the problem?

I'm sure you won't bother to answer. There probably isn't anything in your Libertarian guide book to reference and then regurgitate on the subject. Although I'm sure you would blindly believe and trumpet it if there was, regardless of it's factual merit. Just like you selling the von Mises institute line that von Mises wasn't a fascist even though he was actually a registered and serving member of a fascist government. Man, Delirious, you are a laugh riot. Stupid and gullible as all hell, but a riot none the less.


CalcuttaRain

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#442 : March 20, 2013, 10:59:07 PM

Sad really . Your thoughts on the human race are pretty low if you think complulsion and force is the only way to get us to help one another...

How good were the poor and hungry doing in America prior to the food stamp program being created, Delirious Smurf?

You mean during the Great Depression?  Well, not well, it was THE GREAT DEPRESSION.

Government is often in a space that was filled by charity.

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Dolorous Jason

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#443 : March 21, 2013, 06:51:18 AM

Sad really . Your thoughts on the human race are pretty low if you think complulsion and force is the only way to get us to help one another...

How good were the poor and hungry doing in America prior to the food stamp program being created, Delirious Smurf?

You mean during the Great Depression?  Well, not well, it was THE GREAT DEPRESSION.

Government is often in a space that was filled by charity.

Exactly. We actually did quite well taking care of ourselves and each other . There was never really a starvation epidemic in this country until perhaps the Great Depression , which is just one of those things.

Starvation is never really a rampant problem amongst humans , except in times of Famine , drought , over-population , or extreme economic downturns.  In these cases they will be problems regardless of how much your government is attempting to steal.



Comrade is getting angry....how dare we suggest self-reliance and moral responsibility !

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

Dolorous Jason

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#444 : March 21, 2013, 07:09:10 AM

Sad really . Your thoughts on the human race are pretty low if you think complulsion and force is the only way to get us to help one another...
. Just like you selling the von Mises institute line that von Mises wasn't a fascist even though he was actually a registered and serving member of a fascist government.

LOL , I love how you keep repeating the Von Mises is a fascist rhetoric.  What does Von Mises have to do with the topic of food stamps , you idiot ??? Absolutely nothing . The fact you keep bringing it up must mean that you know you've lost yet another debate , and are trying to suck the discussion off-topic into another one of your black-holes.

Well then tell us : What is one specific principle of Mises political/economic philosophy that is fascist in nature . Don't bother using the article in which he says fascism may work temporarily but it is doomed to failure , because that has already been debunked. I posted the entire article , in which he says fascism is "evil" and is clearly making the case against it . Anyone who read it already knows you are completely full of sh!t.  I'm talking about specifics , not quotes out of context or obscure political alliances made early on. There is plenty of reading material , he was well-documented. You already love pirating google , so this should be easy. Go....


What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

Cyrus

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#445 : March 21, 2013, 07:22:18 AM

I think this thread should be locked.

olafberserker

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#446 : March 21, 2013, 07:39:33 AM

I think this thread should be locked.

I agree, but what would vinny do with half his life if he couldn't stalk cbw?

Cyrus

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#447 : March 21, 2013, 07:47:14 AM

I think this thread should be locked.

I agree, but what would vinny do with half his life if he couldn't stalk cbw?

I could post another poll about locking threads, he always seems to enjoy that.

spartan

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#448 : March 21, 2013, 09:09:08 AM

The way to solve the hunger problem in America, have every poor person track down a relative with a farm. If they don't have one, maybe we can start a "Big Brother" type program where a farmer adopts a poor person to use as labor until he can get back on his feet again. Oh...wait...that would be government intervention. Okay, scratch that. I'm sure the farmers will take it upon themselves to stroll the inner cities to find starving poor people to adopt. You guys are freaking hilarious. Thanks man. I needed a good laugh today.

I think you need to work on your satire because it makes you look, well, sorry, but kinda dumb.

And, just as a reminder, nobody is complaining about the existance of food stamps, but the way it is being abused by the Govt and those who use it.
: March 21, 2013, 09:11:15 AM spartan

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#449 : March 21, 2013, 09:27:27 AM

Sad really . Your thoughts on the human race are pretty low if you think complulsion and force is the only way to get us to help one another...

How good were the poor and hungry doing in America prior to the food stamp program being created, Delirious Smurf?

You mean during the Great Depression?  Well, not well, it was THE GREAT DEPRESSION.

Government is often in a space that was filled by charity.

Exactly. We actually did quite well taking care of ourselves and each other . There was never really a starvation epidemic in this country until perhaps the Great Depression , which is just one of those things.

Starvation is never really a rampant problem amongst humans , except in times of Famine , drought , over-population , or extreme economic downturns.  In these cases they will be problems regardless of how much your government is attempting to steal.



Comrade is getting angry....how dare we suggest self-reliance and moral responsibility !

Your first mistake....of the day, was piggybacking a Vinny Peanuts argument. The Great Depression was merely the exacerbation of an already existent problem. The "Roaring 20's" was full of income inequality; super rich people, working class poor people, and little in between. Despite the common assumptions, there was high unemployment and high amounts of empoverished Americans BEFORE the Great Depression hit in 1929.

In fact, one of the primary reasons for the depression hitting was the fact that the supply side economic policies of Harding and Coolidge created an artificial bubble, and supply greatly outpaced demand. We were producing more products than the American public could consume, mainly because the price of goods was higher than most Americans could afford to purchase, which created massive surpluses.

Any idea how the first food stamp program came into existence, Delirious Smurf? There was essentially tons of surplus food and goods sitting on shelves of stores, and tons of starving Americans who couldn't afford to buy it. So the big, bad, evil government created the stamp program as a means of getting surplus food and goods that were essentially going to waste into the hands of those starving Americans. I'm sure Standard Oil and US Steel was already working on a solution to that problem though, right Generalissimo?

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