Customer paid for groceries with food stamps, walked into parking lot and...

[Durango 95]

What are you talking about, Durango ?

"He used the relatives as an example of just one of the many places you can go for charity .  There are also churches , friends , neighbors ,  and most of all numerous wonderful charitable organizations such as the Salvation Army who feed people by the thousands every day."

Did I misunderstand? Is this not part of the Libertarian plan you've been advocating for dealing w/ the problem as it relates to food stamps.?

[Dolorous Jason]

I haven't put forth any "plan" , but it is certainly a pro charity statement that I made . One which me and most other libertarians I know share.

Libertarians absolutely believe in helping those in need , and do so voluntarily.  It's the government coercion and sense of entitlement we have an issue with.

[Durango 95]

I haven't put forth any "plan" , but it is certainly a pro charity statement that I made . One which me and most other libertarians I know share.

Libertarians absolutely believe in helping those in need , and do so voluntarily.  It's the government coercion and sense of entitlement we have an issue with.

Don't play word games w/ me. This is the Libertarian plan. Which as anyone can see is not a plan at all.

It's is a pipe-dream, piecemeal, cobbled together load of whimsical tripe . 

 As I've said before there's an appeal to libertarianism but this is fool's gold.

[Dolorous Jason]

I haven't put forth any "plan" , but it is certainly a pro charity statement that I made . One which me and most other libertarians I know share.

Libertarians absolutely believe in helping those in need , and do so voluntarily.  It's the government coercion and sense of entitlement we have an issue with.

Don't play word games w/ me. This is the Libertarian plan. Which as anyone can see is not a plan at all

      Thanks for proving my point. LOL . We dont attempt to plan peoples lives for them. We leave that to people like you arrogant enough to think you can.

[VinBucFan]

Government spending needs to be dialed back in EVERY sector so we need less of this:

That would require facing the reality that there is no valid estimate of fraud that would justify creating and funding added bureaucracy to combat it, or to justify ending the program, which is of course the ultimate goal that very few of them will openly admit. 750 million was the last verifiable estimate. That from a program that cost 75 billion to operate in 2012, which in and of itself, is a virtual drop in the bucket when dealing with an overall budget of 3 trillion dollars.

The Iraq war cost the US more than it would have spent to fund the food stamp program for well over a decade, fraud and all, yet some of these same people will tell us how necessary an expense that clusterf*** of a war was.

How much does welfare cost when you cut out the Medicare, Medicaid, and SSI portion, Vinny? I see what you did there. You grouped food stamps in with the big two (I say two because SS typically runs at a surplus, with the only exception being the payroll tax holiday years) to suggest that it is causing a strain on our budget.

75 billion. That's what the food assistance program costs. That number is actually up significantly during the recession from what it normally costs, which is around 35 - 40 billion a year. What percentage of the budget is that, Vince?

I think you just illustrated my point.  My points was that the ENTIRE federal spending budget was bloated and that part of what prevents meaningful cuts is what you just did, which was to say "this is just a drop in the bucket, cut something else."  The truth us ENTITLEMENT spending makes up a HUGE part of the spending problem, so cut entitlements and military spending.

Btw, saying "SS typically runs at a surplus" is like saying "the Titanic was sailing along smoothly . . ."

[dbucfan]

Still waiting for someone to explain this one

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/18/dems-preserve-us-mexico-food-stamp-partnership-while-usda-prepares-for-meat/

[VinBucFan]

absurd

[Durango 95]

"We dont attempt to plan peoples lives for them."

Our plan is to say that we have no plan. But that's not really a plan, we just plan on saying that. Which isn't a plan, it just what we plan to do.

[Durango 95]

Here's Libertarian that regardless of what you think of his, ahem, "plan" does have a plan.

Ron Paul: [11:00] "...and when it comes to welfare, matter of fact I'm probably the best protector of social security and some of these programs for child healthcare and elderly healthcare- because we cant afford it. We're going bust, and it's all gonna collapse. You have Obamacare, is totally destructive to the medical care system. I'm saying save- I want to cut a trillion dollars out of the budget- but a lot of it comes from overseas funding and war, and I'm saying- this is the only way we can preserve some of these programs and work our way out of it. I want young people to opt out of social security. But my goal isnt to cut- I think it's where the republicans make a mistake. theyre seen as cutting food stamps, and increasing the military budget. I think thats bad politics and so in my more pragmatic stance on how we get to the place where i want to go, actually I'm probably offering a program where some of these programs that we have taught people to be so dependent on, I would probably preserve them longer than others because we are going to lose them because of the bankruptcy that is coming."

[Dolorous Jason]

Here's Libertarian that regardless of what you think of his, ahem, "plan" does have a plan.

Ron Paul: [11:00] "...and when it comes to welfare, matter of fact I'm probably the best protector of social security and some of these programs for child healthcare and elderly healthcare- because we cant afford it. We're going bust, and it's all gonna collapse. You have Obamacare, is totally destructive to the medical care system. I'm saying save- I want to cut a trillion dollars out of the budget- but a lot of it comes from overseas funding and war, and I'm saying- this is the only way we can preserve some of these programs and work our way out of it. I want young people to opt out of social security. But my goal isnt to cut- I think it's where the republicans make a mistake. theyre seen as cutting food stamps, and increasing the military budget. I think thats bad politics and so in my more pragmatic stance on how we get to the place where i want to go, actually I'm probably offering a program where some of these programs that we have taught people to be so dependent on, I would probably preserve them longer than others because we are going to lose them because of the bankruptcy that is coming."

Glad you could finally admit I personally wasn't proposing a "plan" . lol . But you might want to use libertaratian with a little "L" if you want to attempt to label Paul as such.... because , ahem , Ron Paul is a member of the Republican Party , not the Libertarian.

However....I would get on board with this "plan". Ron Paul is trying to do things in a pragmatic way , as he said , and you have to wean the sheeple of the government teet if you ever want to convince them off of it at all.

If you notice  , though , Paul is talking about a plan to reduce 1 trillion dollars from the budget , not solve world-wide hunger. I don;t think we need a "plan" for hunger in this country. I believe in the goodness of people in general  , and that it would get done charitably. Look at the billions raised for Haiti , a country most of us have never even been to or would want to go to. Are you saying we wouldn't do the same for a neighbor ? How did we raise that money without government intervention to steal it from us by force? We must have done it with piece-meal whimsy I suppose.

[Durango 95]

"Ron Paul is trying to do things in a pragmatic way "

Imagine that.

[Dolorous Jason]

"Ron Paul is trying to do things in a pragmatic way "

Imagine that.

Speaking of the "plan" , thinking you'll EVER get the crooks in this government to be pragmatic and make a trillion in actual cuts is also very ....in your words ....whimsical.


I guess all of us crazy liberty-minded people are living pipe-dreams in one way or another.  Can't blame us for trying though...

[Durango 95]

"Can't blame us for trying though..."

Which is exactly the point I'm trying to make to you. If you're trying to get your ideas across it won't work by being flippant and responding w/ pat answers, ex; "We dont attempt to plan peoples lives for them."
You need to offer a little more substance if you want your ideas to bear fruit. Stop being so freakin' guarded ex; "I haven't put forth any "plan" . Those type of responses are perceived as if you're hiding something and don't give a damn about people that are in genuine need. It took you 9 posts back and forth to answer a simple question, which you only did after I posted Paul's comments in dealing w/ the issue. But it's not just you, but so many that believe the same things as you, at least that I've encountered and come across.

Whatever, moving on.

[Dolorous Jason]

"Can't blame us for trying though..."

Which is exactly the point I'm trying to make to you. If you're trying to get your ideas across it won't work by being flippant and responding w/ pat answers, ex; "We dont attempt to plan peoples lives for them."
You need to offer a little more substance if you want your ideas to bear fruit. Stop being so freakin' guarded ex; "I haven't put forth any "plan" . Those type of responses are perceived as if you're hiding something and don't give a damn about people that are in genuine need. It took you 9 posts back and forth to answer a simple question, which you only did after I posted Paul's comments in dealing w/ the issue. But it's not just you, but so many that believe the same things as you, at least that I've encountered and come across.

Whatever, moving on.

Fair enough.  I guess I sometimes forget that not everyone on here is a useful idiot like the Comrade .

[CBWx2]

Still waiting for you to admit that von Mises was a fascist, based on the irrefutable fact that he actually was a fascist, as in an honest to goodness, card carrying, propaganda trumpeting fascist. Still waiting for you to admit that Hayek supported fascism, and stop denying it even in the face of him actually on record saying that he supports fascism.

So I assume this is your way of admiting you can't find any philosophical subtance to support your ridiculous claim . All you have is the same quote you continue to use out of context , and a lesser of two evils political alliance that has been explained.

 ....your surrender is noted , dumb ass.

No. It's my way of saying who gives a flying crap what they wrote, because what they did is what they stood for. Read some of Vladimir Lenin's essays from just before and just recently after the Bulshevik's came to power. He was equally, if not more condemnatory of authoritarian rule as your Libertarian gods were. His ultimate goal was to create a communist state, which is a classless, government-less society.

Lenin wrote countless essays about the evil and immorality of the state, just as your Libertarian gods did. To Lenin, the state was immoral because government rule, even in a democratic society, inherently creates a class system, which he viewed as contradictory to his ultimate goal. However, he viewed the dictatorial rule of the Vanguard as a necessary evil. It was a means to achieving an end. A "lesser of two evils political alliance," if you will.

Delirious Smurf, I am aware that you will never admit the epic amount of fail that you have incurred on this issue, and at this point, it's just purely out of pleasure that I continue to slap you in the face with your indoctrinated responses and political and social hypocrisy.

Sorry to derail the thread with this. I can't promise, however, that it will never happen again. The useless idiot just makes it way too easy.