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spartan

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« #360 : November 29, 2012, 05:03:55 PM »


Where is the empirical evidence that raising the minimum wage in the past has lead to a decrease in demand or an increase in the unemployment rate?

Smoking

VinBucFan

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« #361 : November 29, 2012, 05:59:35 PM »


Are they going to start eating more in general, or is some other party losing out?

You really haven't thought this out well.

No, no he has not. In fact it might be the dumbest thing I've read all day.

CBWX2, you could have a career in politics. I haven't seen such misguided info twisted and contorted since Obama explained how Obamacare was actually going to save money!

Where is the empirical evidence that raising the minimum wage in the past has lead to a decrease in demand or an increase in the unemployment rate?

One of CBW's dishonest fallback arguments -- "where's the empirical evidence" In this case where's the "empirical evidence" that raising the minimum wage led to a decrease in demand.  To fully grasp the intellectual dishonesty, just recall that IN THIS THREAD  ..  . CBW begrudgingly admitted that raising wages = raising prices.  In the real world, generally prices go up demand goes down. Now though, because he is backed into a corner by sound arguments advance by others, CBW's current position is "raising wages = raising prices BUT raising prices DOES NOT decrease demand UNLESS you show me "emperical evidence" that raising wages in the past . . . "

That is the CBW shell game exposed.

Spin, spin, spin


VinBucFan

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« #362 : November 29, 2012, 06:46:13 PM »


Where is the empirical evidence that raising the minimum wage in the past has lead to a decrease in demand or an increase in the unemployment rate?

Smoking

Spartan, you have the patience of Job.  For what it is worth. I offer this little gem:

"Price Responses to Minimum Wage Increases

 Using a variety of government and private datasets, Aaronson and French show that prices do in fact rise in response to a minimum wage increase. Aaronson (2001) finds that minimum wage increases tend to raise prices. The magnitude and timing of these price increases is striking. Within three months of a wage hike, Aaronson finds that a 10 percent increase in the minimum wage resulted in a 0.4–0.7 percent increase in restaurant prices. Much of the increase occurred within the first month of the wage hike. In the fast food sector, prices rise 1.5 percent in response to a 10 percent increase.

Aaronson, French, and MacDonald (2004) utilize store-level Consumer Price Index (CPI) data generated by the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) to separate firms by their relative use of low-skill, entry-level employment. A wage hike will particularly affect those firms employing a higher percentage of teenagers and other low-skilled employees. Using this new data, the authors find further evidence that prices rise following a wage hike. Tellingly, they also find that in areas where a greater number of employees earned the minimum wage, the price increases are larger than the overall results.

Employment Effects of a Minimum Wage Increase

 Utilizing these price responses, along with other information about the restaurant industry such as labor’s share of costs and the demand elasticity for restaurant services, Aaronson and French (2003) construct a formal model to indirectly pin down the employment response to a minimum wage increase. In a perfectly competitive labor market, the authors find that a 10 percent increase in the minimum wage will result in a 2.5 to 3.5 percent decrease in employment."


ENJOY


Dolorous Jason

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« #363 : November 29, 2012, 07:13:47 PM »

I think you won't see large unemployment changes after a minimum wage increase any longer , not because it has no effect , but because the minimum wage has aleady made itself largely irrelevant. Most jobs americans covet already need to pay above minimum wage in order to attract quality people. Other jobs that require very little skill or responsibility , and therefore benefit the most from cheap labor , have already been outsourced to other countries , or are done by illegal aliens for less than minimum wage.

So as long as you think the death of certain parts of our economy due to outsourcing is ok  ...as long as you think less job OPPORTUNITIES for the less fortunate/uneducated is ok... as long as you think paying higher prices for many things is ok , you should have no problem with the minimum wage .



*Edit*  Mind you , I'm speaking of small increases . There is is always a tipping point where all new sh!tty side effects come into play.
« : November 29, 2012, 07:21:39 PM Fire Mark Dummynik »

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

CBWx2

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« #364 : November 29, 2012, 08:21:05 PM »

Someone should explain the difference between a theory and an empirical study to Vinny Peanuts. Until he learns the difference, there's no point in allowing him to contribute to the discussion.


CBWx2

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« #365 : November 29, 2012, 08:37:08 PM »

So as long as you think the death of certain parts of our economy due to outsourcing is ok  ...as long as you think less job OPPORTUNITIES for the less fortunate/uneducated is ok... as long as you think paying higher prices for many things is ok , you should have no problem with the minimum wage .

Most low paying job OPPORTUNITIES for the less fortunate/uneducated are in the service indusrty, ie., they are non-outsourceable. McDonald's can't pay someone to drop a basket of chicken nuggets in Singapore to sell to customers in Ohio.


VinBucFan

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« #366 : November 29, 2012, 08:37:30 PM »

Someone should explain the difference between a theory and an empirical study to Vinny Peanuts. Until he learns the difference, there's no point in allowing him to contribute to the discussion.

predictable .......................................shift ..............................shift ..............................shift


wreck ship

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« #367 : November 29, 2012, 08:45:52 PM »

Someone should explain the difference between a theory and an empirical study to Vinny Peanuts. Until he learns the difference, there's no point in allowing him to contribute to the discussion.
going to need some crayons, alphabet blocks, and lil vinny's helmet

philosophy is questions that may never be answered
religion is answers that may never be questioned

VinBucFan

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« #368 : November 29, 2012, 08:51:49 PM »

Someone should explain the difference between a theory and an empirical study to Vinny Peanuts. Until he learns the difference, there's no point in allowing him to contribute to the discussion.
going to need some crayons, alphabet blocks, and lil vinny's helmet

It makes me happy to have a bigot insult me. I am definitely doing something right.


wreck ship

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« #369 : November 29, 2012, 09:03:00 PM »

Someone should explain the difference between a theory and an empirical study to Vinny Peanuts. Until he learns the difference, there's no point in allowing him to contribute to the discussion.
going to need some crayons, alphabet blocks, and lil vinny's helmet

It makes me happy to have a bigot insult me. I am definitely doing something right.
your shoes are on the wrong foot again lil man. Try again

philosophy is questions that may never be answered
religion is answers that may never be questioned

VinBucFan

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« #370 : November 29, 2012, 09:11:21 PM »

Someone should explain the difference between a theory and an empirical study to Vinny Peanuts. Until he learns the difference, there's no point in allowing him to contribute to the discussion.
going to need some crayons, alphabet blocks, and lil vinny's helmet

It makes me happy to have a bigot insult me. I am definitely doing something right.
your shoes are on the wrong foot again lil man. Try again

like I said, the more you dislike me the better I feel. I dont ever want to be linked to someone like you


Dolorous Jason

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« #371 : November 29, 2012, 09:51:15 PM »



Most low paying job OPPORTUNITIES for the less fortunate/uneducated are in the service indusrty

Of course , because the others have already gone overseas ( manufacturing) , or are done by mexicans (laborers ).

So , while you may be somewhat correct about unemployment numbers not competely tanking , it's only because there aren't enough earning the minimum in other fields outside entry level service . In other words ,your minumum wage increase isn't going to help very many people except a few high school kids who live with thier parents and want a part time job to by PS3 games , and a few irresponsible jackasses .

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

CBWx2

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« #372 : November 29, 2012, 10:04:57 PM »



Most low paying job OPPORTUNITIES for the less fortunate/uneducated are in the service indusrty

Of course , because the others have already gone overseas ( manufacturing) , or are done by mexicans (laborers ).

So , while you may be somewhat correct about unemployment numbers not competely tanking , it's only because there aren't enough earning the minimum in other fields outside entry level service . In other words ,your minumum wage increase isn't going to help very many people except a few high school kids who live with thier parents and want a part time job to by PS3 games , and a few irresponsible jackasses .

The vast majority of those manufacturing jobs that were outsourced were jobs that payed well above minimum wage. If you want to debate outsourcing, I believe we did that in a thread a while back. Suffice it to say, the minimum wage has absolutely zero to do with outsourcing, and if the answer to stopping outsourcing is to make it less appealing by paying Americans the same wages that Chinese laborers get paid to do those jobs, I fail to see how that helps our economy in the least.


spartan

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« #373 : November 29, 2012, 10:15:33 PM »

Someone should explain the difference between a theory and an empirical study to Vinny Peanuts. Until he learns the difference, there's no point in allowing him to contribute to the discussion.

You didn't ask for an empirical study, you asked for empirical evidence.

Progressives have been raising the price of tobacco products for years with the explicit intent of reducing demand. There is empirical evidence that they have been relatively successful. Less demand equals less product, which in turn makes less people to make, transport and sell it does it not?  The current Secretary of Energy Steven Choi stated the price of oil needed to rise to European levels to reduce demand and consumption.

You can't implement a strategy and say it works on things you don't like, then say it is irrelevant and won't work for things that you do. Which one is it?

olafberserker

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« #374 : November 29, 2012, 10:39:38 PM »

It's good to know that McDonald's will be fine.  Maybe Joe Olivo and his 47 employees can get an $11.00/hour minimum wage job there.
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