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tatmanfish

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#15 : November 09, 2011, 02:55:32 AM

Id like to see where PFF ranks him amongst RGs. LGs and RGs have very different roles especially in pass protect as most slide protection go to the left giving LGs extra help in most cases. Does ?PFF categorize them by position or are all Gs lumped together.

Id also like to see where PFF ranks guys in man schemes vs zone schemes or if they do. There is a significant difference in the two styles.



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JavaRay

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#16 : November 09, 2011, 03:54:54 AM

Why can't you log into PFF and take a look?    Is it because that site sucks so bad that you can't even navigate it?   Or because they charge money to view what they post?    Either way,  it renders the site worthless.


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#17 : November 09, 2011, 07:55:49 AM

The two sites rate VERY differently. PFF only uses flat numbers and does no reasoning or clarification. PFW actually watches the plays and the conditions behind the plays. For example, PFF most likely did not score the failed JJ 4th down run positivity for Davin.  Yet PFW takes into account the stupidity of the play call and how every defender on the Saints came busting up the play even before the ball was snapped. That has been my biggest stink with PFF, many folks here constantly yell for example, YPG  mean nothing, but that is all PFF does, flat numbers based on what they think they see. Just like last year, they ranked the Bucs running game better in the 2nd half than the 1st. Well duh, it had Blount running the ball in the second half. PFW would make that distinction, PFF not so much.


NOTE: I'm not saying one or the other is correct in this comment, just pointing out the different styles each uses to grade.
: November 09, 2011, 08:01:44 AM Freddy

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#18 : November 09, 2011, 08:04:58 AM

Oh god, best run blocker...that is some funny stuff. Did PFW do a salary sort because they clearly aren't watching the games.

All posts are opinions in case you are too stupid to figure that out on your own without me saying it over and over.

Skull and Bones

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#19 : November 09, 2011, 08:14:09 AM

ORG Davin Joseph/Buccaneers Joseph might be the best run blocker in the game, and the Bucs have not been shy going right behind him on most of their critical plays. He has earned the seven-year extension he signed in the offseason and has been one of the team's bright spots.

LMAO. I needed a good joke about now. Too bad this guy doesn't watch the games.

PFF has him at #40 for run-blocking among OGs.
But he makes up for it by being #44 in pass-blocking
wow.  i want his public relations person.


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#20 : November 09, 2011, 08:23:32 AM

I think a link to that PFF information might be appropriate since the comment was made.   I don't see any current ranking of Davin at 40 vs run and 44 vs pass.

You actually like a Buc player?

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Skull and Bones

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#21 : November 09, 2011, 08:26:02 AM

I think a link to that PFF information might be appropriate since the comment was made.   I don't see any current ranking of Davin at 40 vs run and 44 vs pass.

You actually like a Buc player?
who drafted said player?  There's your answer.


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#22 : November 09, 2011, 08:26:06 AM

I am assuming that they take into consideration that Joseph plays next to Trueblood. 

Biggs3535

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#23 : November 09, 2011, 08:53:13 AM

Oh god, best run blocker...that is some funny stuff. Did PFW do a salary sort because they clearly aren't watching the games.

That, or maybe they listen to one of the best talent evaluators of all time in Matt Millen.

Davin's played well over the last couple games, but this is hilarious.  Same with Iupati.  I guess just getting drafted in the first round equates to All-Pro, regardless of play on the field.


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#24 : November 09, 2011, 10:51:06 AM

The two sites rate VERY differently. PFF only uses flat numbers and does no reasoning or clarification. PFW actually watches the plays and the conditions behind the plays. For example, PFF most likely did not score the failed JJ 4th down run positivity for Davin.  Yet PFW takes into account the stupidity of the play call and how every defender on the Saints came busting up the play even before the ball was snapped. That has been my biggest stink with PFF, many folks here constantly yell for example, YPG  mean nothing, but that is all PFF does, flat numbers based on what they think they see. Just like last year, they ranked the Bucs running game better in the 2nd half than the 1st. Well duh, it had Blount running the ball in the second half. PFW would make that distinction, PFF not so much.


NOTE: I'm not saying one or the other is correct in this comment, just pointing out the different styles each uses to grade.

You're making a buttload of assumptions.  For one, I'd like to see where PFW grades every play.  From a quick glance at their website, they don't.  They just fall into the hype machine like most fans in assuming First Rounds Guards in Joseph and Iupati are playng Pro Bowl levels, when in reality they aren't.


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#25 : November 09, 2011, 11:00:33 AM

The two sites rate VERY differently. PFF only uses flat numbers and does no reasoning or clarification. PFW actually watches the plays and the conditions behind the plays. For example, PFF most likely did not score the failed JJ 4th down run positivity for Davin.  Yet PFW takes into account the stupidity of the play call and how every defender on the Saints came busting up the play even before the ball was snapped. That has been my biggest stink with PFF, many folks here constantly yell for example, YPG  mean nothing, but that is all PFF does, flat numbers based on what they think they see. Just like last year, they ranked the Bucs running game better in the 2nd half than the 1st. Well duh, it had Blount running the ball in the second half. PFW would make that distinction, PFF not so much.


NOTE: I'm not saying one or the other is correct in this comment, just pointing out the different styles each uses to grade.
That's what Football Outsiders does, not PFF. Football Outsiders just looks at the result of the play, and credits whatever part of the field the play happened on. PFF looks at each play regardless of result, for example if a CB gets beat but the QB overthrows the WR, it's a bad play for the CB, not an incompletion.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

tatmanfish

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#26 : November 09, 2011, 11:16:12 AM

Why can't you log into PFF and take a look?    Is it because that site sucks so bad that you can't even navigate it?   Or because they charge money to view what they post?    Either way,  it renders the site worthless.

they charge money and people arent supposed to post the info they pay for.

PFF also graded Freeman poorly this last game according to a PFF recap I saw. His 73% completions, 1TD, and 103QB rating gets a negative grade apparently because he over threw 3 or 4 passes and was sacked 1 time. Not sure how he got a negative grade with a pretty solid game overall. Hes one of the few players that actually played decent for the Bucs.



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chace1986

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#27 : November 09, 2011, 11:24:03 AM

The two sites rate VERY differently. PFF only uses flat numbers and does no reasoning or clarification. PFW actually watches the plays and the conditions behind the plays. For example, PFF most likely did not score the failed JJ 4th down run positivity for Davin.  Yet PFW takes into account the stupidity of the play call and how every defender on the Saints came busting up the play even before the ball was snapped. That has been my biggest stink with PFF, many folks here constantly yell for example, YPG  mean nothing, but that is all PFF does, flat numbers based on what they think they see. Just like last year, they ranked the Bucs running game better in the 2nd half than the 1st. Well duh, it had Blount running the ball in the second half. PFW would make that distinction, PFF not so much.


NOTE: I'm not saying one or the other is correct in this comment, just pointing out the different styles each uses to grade.

They just fall into the hype machine like most fans in assuming First Rounds Guards in Joseph and Iupati are playng Pro Bowl levels, when in reality they aren't.

Agreed. This seems to happen with positions that arent of the "skill" variety. In no way is Davin "the best" in any catagory. He is a solid starter who on certain plays looks like a top 10 OG...and on other plays...not so much. Too inconsistent.


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#28 : November 09, 2011, 11:28:52 AM

PFF also graded Freeman poorly this last game according to a PFF recap I saw. His 73% completions, 1TD, and 103QB rating gets a negative grade apparently because he over threw 3 or 4 passes and was sacked 1 time. Not sure how he got a negative grade with a pretty solid game overall. Hes one of the few players that actually played decent for the Bucs.
They really graded him as close to neutral as it gets for passing, -0.5. He got a -0.5 for run blocking and -0.4 for penalties. I have no idea how they specifically graded each play, but it's possible to have a really good stat line, as Freeman did, and still have an uninspiring grade from PFF. You basically get a 0.0 for every competent professional play you make. Degree of difficulty and precision in executing a play is part of it. Maybe a QB had an inordinate number of wide open receivers. Maybe a QB hit a guy for a 10-yard gain, but threw behind, preventing a run after the catch. Maybe a CB tripped and a 10 yard play became a 80 yard play. There are lots of ways to have good passing stats but not get a particularly good passing grade.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

Biggs3535

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#29 : November 09, 2011, 11:31:46 AM

PFF also graded Freeman poorly this last game according to a PFF recap I saw. His 73% completions, 1TD, and 103QB rating gets a negative grade apparently because he over threw 3 or 4 passes and was sacked 1 time. Not sure how he got a negative grade with a pretty solid game overall. Hes one of the few players that actually played decent for the Bucs.

Yeah, and Quincy Black had a extremely negative grade and lead the team in tackles.  Trueblood had a extremely negative grade and didn't give up a sack.  Who can figure where this stuff comes from?

Please, a high completion percentage on short passes and QB rating is for the Jeff Garcia's of world.  Overthrowing two receivers for big plays (possibly TD's) is a bigger negative than completing a 5 yard dumpoff in garbage time is a positive.  They had Freeman as the 9th best QB in the league last year.  This year, he's sitting at #24 in their rankings.  Most people watching Freeman last year and this year have noticed quite a difference in his performance.

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