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JavaRay

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« #30 : November 09, 2011, 12:17:57 PM »

I think a link to that PFF information might be appropriate since the comment was made.   I don't see any current ranking of Davin at 40 vs run and 44 vs pass.

You actually like a Buc player?

Sure.  There are some I like.


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« #31 : November 09, 2011, 05:49:26 PM »

The two sites rate VERY differently. PFF only uses flat numbers and does no reasoning or clarification. PFW actually watches the plays and the conditions behind the plays. For example, PFF most likely did not score the failed JJ 4th down run positivity for Davin.  Yet PFW takes into account the stupidity of the play call and how every defender on the Saints came busting up the play even before the ball was snapped. That has been my biggest stink with PFF, many folks here constantly yell for example, YPG  mean nothing, but that is all PFF does, flat numbers based on what they think they see. Just like last year, they ranked the Bucs running game better in the 2nd half than the 1st. Well duh, it had Blount running the ball in the second half. PFW would make that distinction, PFF not so much.


NOTE: I'm not saying one or the other is correct in this comment, just pointing out the different styles each uses to grade.
That's what Football Outsiders does, not PFF. Football Outsiders just looks at the result of the play, and credits whatever part of the field the play happened on. PFF looks at each play regardless of result, for example if a CB gets beat but the QB overthrows the WR, it's a bad play for the CB, not an incompletion.

Really? How is Morris and Olson graded on PFF?

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« #32 : November 10, 2011, 09:08:21 AM »

Quote
The PFF Mid Season All Pro Team

Offensive Guards: Andy Levitre (Buf) and Marshal Yanda (Bal)


The biggest threat to Levitre’s status as 2011’s top guard may be Buffalo being forced to use him at left tackle. The less time he spends there, the more time the competition have to catch up on him. Yanda and Sitton are just that bit better than a strong group of right guards, led by Brian Waters and Jahri Evans.

Second Team: Evan Mathis (Phi) and Josh Sitton (GB)

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/11/09/the-pff-mid-season-all-pro-team/

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

Skull and Bones

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« #33 : November 10, 2011, 09:19:04 AM »

Yanda.  wasn't he a free agent?


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« #34 : November 10, 2011, 09:27:06 AM »

Yanda, Waters, and Mathis were all 2011 free agents. Yanda got a big deal but Waters and Mathis signed for scraps.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

Biggs3535

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« #35 : November 10, 2011, 09:36:54 AM »

Really? How is Morris and Olson graded on PFF?

What?  They don't grade the playcalling, they grade how each player performs.

How is Morris and Olson graded on PFW?  Hell, how is anybody graded on PFW?


CalcuttaRain

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« #36 : November 10, 2011, 12:55:13 PM »

Yanda, Waters, and Mathis were all 2011 free agents. Yanda got a big deal but Waters and Mathis signed for scraps.

Man . . . . Yanda was never going anywhere and Waters and Mathis are both in their 30s, right?

I don't know but I am even willing to guess one of those three was a lter round pick or even an UFA who GREW to be the player they are now in their 30s.  I am sure you will tell me if I am wrong

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« #37 : November 10, 2011, 01:06:00 PM »

I for one have never really claimed Yanda was a real option. Waters was an undrafted free agent who first became a starter in 2001 and was in the Pro Bowl in 2004, which by some accounts was a year or two late. Mathis wasa  3rd round pick in 2005 and has bounced around as an unheralded journeyman.

FRG is the most logical poster on this board.  You guys just don\'t like where the logical conclusions take you.

freddy

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« #38 : November 13, 2011, 12:28:52 PM »

Really? How is Morris and Olson graded on PFF?

What?  They don't grade the playcalling, they grade how each player performs.

How is Morris and Olson graded on PFW?  Hell, how is anybody graded on PFW?

The same way every other objective sports analysis site, for example, PR, ESPN, PFW, USA Today and 1000's of others, using big picture reasonable thought and projection. They do silly things like take the opponent, the schedule, the coaching (or lack there of), the score, the conditions and 100'sof other variables into account. PFF strictly grades each play without regard to such, I'm sure, insignificant things.  On top of that, all those site actually have people that go the the game in person, talk with the players and coaches and training staff and front office personnel and a host of others, PFF is a bunch of volunteers that give their input after watching the game on TV.

So, as most normal people would, I'll continue to put more weight on objective and complete reporting while also considering the cute stats PFF provides.

Note again, to make it clear before some start crying, I'm not calling either of them correct or wrong, just which, IMHO, is more credible the greatest amount of times. 

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« #39 : November 13, 2011, 01:28:15 PM »

"All-pro" Joseph smoked for a sack


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« #40 : November 13, 2011, 02:47:03 PM »

The same way every other objective sports analysis site, for example, PR, ESPN, PFW, USA Today and 1000's of others, using big picture reasonable thought and projection. They do silly things like take the opponent, the schedule, the coaching (or lack there of), the score, the conditions and 100'sof other variables into account. PFF strictly grades each play without regard to such, I'm sure, insignificant things.  On top of that, all those site actually have people that go the the game in person, talk with the players and coaches and training staff and front office personnel and a host of others, PFF is a bunch of volunteers that give their input after watching the game on TV.

You continue to show that you literally have no idea what you are talking about.  If you wish to continue to discuss these things, try to educate yourself a little better.


freddy

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« #41 : November 13, 2011, 06:16:54 PM »

The same way every other objective sports analysis site, for example, PR, ESPN, PFW, USA Today and 1000's of others, using big picture reasonable thought and projection. They do silly things like take the opponent, the schedule, the coaching (or lack there of), the score, the conditions and 100'sof other variables into account. PFF strictly grades each play without regard to such, I'm sure, insignificant things.  On top of that, all those site actually have people that go the the game in person, talk with the players and coaches and training staff and front office personnel and a host of others, PFF is a bunch of volunteers that give their input after watching the game on TV.

You continue to show that you literally have no idea what you are talking about.  If you wish to continue to discuss these things, try to educate yourself a little better.

What is that a 5th grade response? I was very reasonable in my response, if you have no reasonable reply then just don't reply but save us the childish comments.

Biggs3535

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« #42 : November 13, 2011, 08:01:37 PM »

The same way every other objective sports analysis site, for example, PR, ESPN, PFW, USA Today and 1000's of others, using big picture reasonable thought and projection. They do silly things like take the opponent, the schedule, the coaching (or lack there of), the score, the conditions and 100'sof other variables into account. PFF strictly grades each play without regard to such, I'm sure, insignificant things.  On top of that, all those site actually have people that go the the game in person, talk with the players and coaches and training staff and front office personnel and a host of others, PFF is a bunch of volunteers that give their input after watching the game on TV.

You continue to show that you literally have no idea what you are talking about.  If you wish to continue to discuss these things, try to educate yourself a little better.

What is that a 5th grade response? I was very reasonable in my response, if you have no reasonable reply then just don't reply but save us the childish comments.

I thought that was a "kind" response.  There wasn't any namecalling or any childishness.  It's a simple statement of fact.  You keep erroneously posting what you believe to be how PFF grades and how other "objective" sites grade.  You continue to be wrong. 

Good to see were back to the "PFF hates the Bucs" excuses.  LMAO @ "objective".


freddy

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« #43 : November 13, 2011, 08:41:37 PM »

The same way every other objective sports analysis site, for example, PR, ESPN, PFW, USA Today and 1000's of others, using big picture reasonable thought and projection. They do silly things like take the opponent, the schedule, the coaching (or lack there of), the score, the conditions and 100'sof other variables into account. PFF strictly grades each play without regard to such, I'm sure, insignificant things.  On top of that, all those site actually have people that go the the game in person, talk with the players and coaches and training staff and front office personnel and a host of others, PFF is a bunch of volunteers that give their input after watching the game on TV.

You continue to show that you literally have no idea what you are talking about.  If you wish to continue to discuss these things, try to educate yourself a little better.

What is that a 5th grade response? I was very reasonable in my response, if you have no reasonable reply then just don't reply but save us the childish comments.

I thought that was a "kind" response.  There wasn't any namecalling or any childishness.  It's a simple statement of fact.  You keep erroneously posting what you believe to be how PFF grades and how other "objective" sites grade.  You continue to be wrong. 

Good to see were back to the "PFF hates the Bucs" excuses.  LMAO @ "objective".

Please Biggs, show me a single time I ever said PFF hates the Bucs. Doing a quick search of "PFF hates the Bucs", the only poster to ever say "PFF hates the Bucs" is some guy named Biggs3535. Interesting huh. That is just another example of you not having any real facts so you just make them up, again.

And I think I know it quite well, get your head out of the sand and just pay attention for once will you? PFF puts out simple stats and assigns grades based on a method that only they use and can not be reasonably verified anyplace else. Despite any claim you make, they are nothing but simple numbers with no real weight behind them. Even their own website makes a similar claim.

PFF assigns a number based on it's analysis, plain and simple. Everyone else looks at it and says:

 "Oh, lineman X gave up 3 QBP's to Roy Miller, that lineman sucks."

or
 
"Oh, lineman X gave up 3 QBP's to Suh , he must be pretty good to limit Suh to so few QBP's, especially when trailing all game and all the teams RB's being hurt"

That is taking the stats into context, something PFF does not do. They just produce stats, they don't evaluate them afterwards. And I'm not challenging how the QBP (or any other stat) is assigned, just what is done with the information afterwards. As per PFF, lineman X would get the same grade for both scenarios above.  Every other sports analysis would put those scenarios  into the proper context.  If you slowed down a moment you would see that.

Not very hard to figure out. But then again, Morris always said stats are for Biggs.

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« #44 : November 13, 2011, 08:46:06 PM »

I wonder of PFW is rethinking their approach to player selection.   Perhaps for fear of being referenced a homer I have never thought of Davin Joseph as All Pro, or Pro Bowl quality. 

I should have added my thoughts are solely based upon what I see - not stats from others so feel free to continue the argument gents.
« : November 13, 2011, 08:48:30 PM dbucfan »

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