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ufojoe

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#4155 : July 05, 2013, 11:45:22 PM

All very nice, but even the most charitable reading of your statements only leaves a "reasonable doubt" as to whether it happened exactly as Z claimed.  For there to be a conviction you have to prove beyond that doubt that it did happen exactly as the prosecution claimed .  And there isn't any evidence to prove that.

The jury may agree with you and come back with a total acquittal in an hour. Or, this jury, as juries have done plenty of times, may surprise a lot of people and convict him because they saw things totally
different than you. If they don't believe Z on a few of those points I posted, they may not believe other details of his story.

We'll know soon enough.

Even you have alluded or at least suggested that the Prosecution have not proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt. In fact they have fallen way short of doing so. Therefore, they are relying on emotion or "peer pressure". Is that what you want?


I have said that the case was weak. Although I think it got stronger this weak. The Hannity interview had some things in it that had to make the jury question Z's credibility even more. And if they don't believe him on certain parts of his narrative, they are free to disregard other parts of it.

If they don't believe he was in fear of great bodily harm or death, they could find him guilty of manslaughter. I guess Murder 2 is still possible but I
highly doubt that. And if they DO convict of manslaughter, I don't think it will be because of emotion or peer pressure.

Prosecution's close will be interesting to watch. Can they pull it all together?

If I had to bet right now, I'd bet on acquittal.

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#4156 : July 06, 2013, 12:22:41 AM

All very nice, but even the most charitable reading of your statements only leaves a "reasonable doubt" as to whether it happened exactly as Z claimed.  For there to be a conviction you have to prove beyond that doubt that it did happen exactly as the prosecution claimed .  And there isn't any evidence to prove that.

The jury may agree with you and come back with a total acquittal in an hour. Or, this jury, as juries have done plenty of times, may surprise a lot of people and convict him because they saw things totally
different than you. If they don't believe Z on a few of those points I posted, they may not believe other details of his story.

We'll know soon enough.

And again, it doesn't matter whether they believe him or not.  There is simply no evidence to prove anything else.  You're not really getting this whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing, are you?


The only way he gets anything other than than completely free is in some form of reverse Jury nullification because of all the racialist propaganda and the juror's fear for their safety and of riots.

That is simply wrong. The jury could very well convict him of manslaughter by viewing their job as dispensing justice rather than determining guilt or innocence. That is what the prosecutor is banking on.

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ufojoe

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#4157 : July 06, 2013, 12:51:28 AM


On why the Hannity interview could turn out to be very important and why a guilty verdict isn't that far fetched...

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment/blogs/tv-guy/os-george-zimmerman-how-long-will-defense-go-20130704,0,432681.post

On Thursday morning television, legal analysts highlighted how Zimmerman didn't tell the truth, in an interview with Fox News' Sean Hannity, about knowing nothing about stand your ground law. Capt. Alexis Carter testified that he taught Zimmerman about the law at Seminole State College.

"The prosecution can say to jurors you can't believe him [Zimmerman]," Jack Ford said on "CBS This Morning."

On NBC's "Today," Lisa Bloom said Zimmerman appears to be caught in "an out and out lie" in the "Hannity" interview. "This is something the prosecution can argue in closing argument," Bloom said. "You know what, he was educated enough in the law of self-defense to concoct a story right at the time of this shooting and give it to the police and stick to that story that it was self-defense because he knew that could exonerate him."

On ABC's "Good Morning America," Brooklyn prosecutor Anna-Sigga Nicolazzi said the prosecution made progress with Carter's testimony and Zimmerman's statement on "Hannity." "It goes toward why is he [Zimmerman] making those things up? Why is he embellishing?" Nicolazzi asked. "Maybe because he realizes, and I think that to be true, that he went too far."

The CNN analysts saw problems for the state with Capt. Carter's testimony.

"I'm a little shocked that the judge allowed this type of testimony to be admitted to begin with," Baez told Cooper. "I've never heard of a witness instructing the jury on the law. That's generally reserved for the judge to do." The defense score "a grand slam" with "dream witness" Carter, Baez said.

Mark Geragos, who has repeatedly slammed the state's performance, told Cooper: "What I don't understand is why didn't the prosecution object to this? When the question is asked, objection, motion to strike?"

Hostin agreed that the defense used Carter to instruct the jury a bit about stand your ground law. But she said "the biggest takeaway" from Carter's testimony was Zimmerman's lying about not knowing stand your ground law.

"So I think that the jury is not going to forget that," Hostin added. "They will see that there was, perhaps, a lie there. Why do you lie about whether or not you know stand your ground? Well, you lie about it because the jury can infer or the police can infer that you framed the narrative, you framed your story so that you get off."

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#4158 : July 06, 2013, 09:34:59 AM

It is total speculation to state that Zimmerman didn't understand the "Stand your ground" law, and is lying about it..  As I stated earlier there isn't a person in any classroom that remembers everything taught in that classroom.  If anyone states they do I would tend to think that is far more likely to be a lie.

ufojoe

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#4159 : July 06, 2013, 11:47:27 AM

It is total speculation to state that Zimmerman didn't understand the "Stand your ground" law, and is lying about it..  As I stated earlier there isn't a person in any classroom that remembers everything taught in that classroom.  If anyone states they do I would tend to think that is far more likely to be a lie.

IMO, I think the jury will disagree with you. Could he have forgotten about it? Yes. But I don't think the jury will see SYG as a forgettable part of the class. According to his professor, the class had specific discussions about SYG and Z was his best student.

And what the prosecution is going to claim in closing is that he was taught about SYG several times in class. He understood it and the when time came for the Hannity question about it, he pretended that he never heard about it because he knew it might hurt him at trial. Is that speculation? It's more like judging the credibility of a witness. It's based on the evidence/testimony presented. And juries have to judge/speculate on whether or not they believe a defendant or witness is telling the truth all the time.

During his interviews with the police, he constantly referred to Martin as "the suspect." Who talks like that? Police do. Wanna-be police. And he wanted to be a cop, lawyer and/or prosecutor and wanted to hunt fugitives (his words).

At least how I think it might go.
: July 06, 2013, 11:50:12 AM ufojoe

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#4160 : July 06, 2013, 11:58:13 AM

The prosecution's argument against an acquittal yesterday articulated a preview of their closing arguments.  Wouldn't surprise me if the jury returns a verdict against Zimmerman.

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#4161 : July 06, 2013, 11:58:46 AM

The first seven or eight pages of this thread are hilarious.  From the initial reports of the white Zimmerman's racism to the exposure of the media's race-baiting, there are still a few people that are clinging to their initial feeling on the case.


ufojoe

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#4162 : July 06, 2013, 12:02:16 PM

The prosecution's argument against an acquittal yesterday articulated a preview of their closing arguments.  Wouldn't surprise me if the jury returns a verdict against Zimmerman.

Conviction of Murder 2 - Very Big Surprise

Conviction of Manslaughter - Mild Surprise

Acquittal - Not Surprised

Since the prosecution's case wasn't great, a strong closing is vital.

Cyrus

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#4163 : July 06, 2013, 12:03:31 PM

Apparently the "Stand Your Ground" law includes;

a) follow someone in your car
b) get out of your car
c) confront them
d)chase them
e) grab and shoot them to death.

What could possibly go wrong with that?

My first post in this thread.

Nearly identical to what the prosecution is arguing today.

Cyrus

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#4164 : July 06, 2013, 12:11:36 PM

The prosecution's argument against an acquittal yesterday articulated a preview of their closing arguments.  Wouldn't surprise me if the jury returns a verdict against Zimmerman.

Conviction of Murder 2 - Very Big Surprise

Conviction of Manslaughter - Mild Surprise

Acquittal - Not Surprised

Since the prosecution's case wasn't great, a strong closing is vital.

That's precisely what every talking head in the country is saying.

Their closing argument has been from the start the only way they'll be able to link it all up for the jury. Their brief argument yesterday is a good direction for their presentation.. So despite, all the experts and their parrots it still wouldn't surprise me.
: July 06, 2013, 12:14:55 PM Durango 95

ufojoe

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#4165 : July 06, 2013, 12:49:12 PM

Apparently the "Stand Your Ground" law includes;

a) follow someone in your car
b) get out of your car
c) confront them
d)chase them
e) grab and shoot them to death.

What could possibly go wrong with that?

My first post in this thread.

Nearly identical to what the prosecution is arguing today.

You nailed it.

I jumped the gun in my first posts and admitted I was wrong for doing so. But certain posters love to harp on the same things over and over.

The prosecution's close has to be on par with the defense's close in the OJ Simpson trial.

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#4166 : July 06, 2013, 01:52:59 PM

"I jumped the gun in my first posts and admitted I was wrong for doing so. But certain posters love to harp on the same things over and over."


Don't you know the #1 rule of The Cove?

Any mistake made will not be acknowledged and any mistake acknowledged will be met with swift and harsh justice.

ufojoe

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#4167 : July 06, 2013, 01:56:45 PM

"I jumped the gun in my first posts and admitted I was wrong for doing so. But certain posters love to harp on the same things over and over."


Don't you know the #1 rule of The Cove?

Any mistake made will not be acknowledged and any mistake acknowledged will be met with swift and harsh justice.

Ha ha. Well, at least it distracts me enough until football gets here!

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#4168 : July 06, 2013, 02:45:02 PM

Zimmerman lied about the extent of the injuries he suffered at the hands of Martin. At no point do his injuries suggest that Martin was using anything near what can be construed as deadly force against Zimmerman, which might be why Zimmerman also threw in the part about Martin reaching for his gun and telling him "you're going to die tonight", which are also two questionable parts of his accounting of events. There is little doubt, eve among those witnesses purported to be helping his defense, that Zimmerman exaggerated many aspects of the conflict to make it appear that he was in more danger than he actually was. Despite what the "unbiased" one's say, this could easily be construed by the jury as disproportionate force or imperfect self-defense, which could justifiably render a lesser verdict of manslaughter.
: July 06, 2013, 02:47:00 PM CBWx2


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#4169 : July 06, 2013, 03:39:21 PM

Apparently the "Stand Your Ground" law includes;

a) follow someone in your car
b) get out of your car
c) confront them
d)chase them
e) grab and shoot them to death.

What could possibly go wrong with that?

My first post in this thread.

Nearly identical to what the prosecution is arguing today.

2 wrongs don't make a right!!
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