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TheChronicHotAir

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#3795 : June 29, 2013, 06:20:49 AM

I think Zimmerman will be guilty, for one simply reason:
He followed/sought out the Subject.


He had the right to follow him, "sought" out is an opinion.  Doesn't make him guilty of anything. 

Kinda hard to say that when there's a dead body involved.
Self defense against an intruder/thief is one thing. When taco vendor goes off his property and "stalks" his target, he's clearly in the wrong.



Runole

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#3796 : June 29, 2013, 08:34:10 AM

I think Zimmerman will be guilty, for one simply reason:
He followed/sought out the Subject.


He had the right to follow him, "sought" out is an opinion.  Doesn't make him guilty of anything. 

Kinda hard to say that when there's a dead body involved.
Self defense against an intruder/thief is one thing. When taco vendor goes off his property and "stalks" his target, he's clearly in the wrong.


Uh I believe that was his job for the neighborhood watch and from the evidence presented Martin sought out Zimmerman and attacked him.  That "dirty white craker"

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#3797 : June 29, 2013, 09:33:25 AM

When taco vendor goes off his property and "stalks" his target, he's clearly in the wrong.



Ahhhhh. . . . . . life lessons


ufojoe

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#3798 : June 29, 2013, 02:04:42 PM

When taco vendor goes off his property and "stalks" his target, he's clearly in the wrong.


Uh I believe that was his job for the neighborhood watch

For the record, NW teaches them NOT to pursue. Having said that, pursuing is not against the law. What happened afterwards might have been.

From what I have seen, so far, the prosecution's case is really weak. If nothing changes, and I'm the defense team, I might rest my case right after
the prosecution is done. If Zimmerman somehow takes the stand, it would be a gigantic mistake, IMO.

olafberserker

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#3799 : June 29, 2013, 03:40:31 PM

If the police tell you to stop pursuit then stop. 

How do you know he didn't?

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#3800 : June 29, 2013, 03:45:58 PM


If we are going the Zim had violent outbursts and only a matter of time until something like this happens route, you could probably say something similar about Martin.

Here's the route I'm going down.

Kid walking in the rain not hurting anyone or doing anything wrong. Then someone shooting him dead.

I'd like to see how cavalier you are (God forbid) your child doing the same then gets shot by a security guard.

Not sure how I am being "cavalier", but the route I'm going is that the "security guard" had just as much right to be walking down that side walk and wasn't doing anything wrong either.  If my son is ever in that position, God forbid, I hope he has enough sense to call 911 and return to his home instead of instigating a confrontation with an unknown individual.

All being said, I said before and will say again that it is a tragedy that the kid died, but I think he had a hand in the outcome and believe making it a race issue was wrong, then charging Zim with murder was wrong.  I could see a manslaughter charge.

VinBucFan

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#3801 : June 29, 2013, 06:29:37 PM


If we are going the Zim had violent outbursts and only a matter of time until something like this happens route, you could probably say something similar about Martin.

Here's the route I'm going down.

Kid walking in the rain not hurting anyone or doing anything wrong. Then someone shooting him dead.

I'd like to see how cavalier you are (God forbid) your child doing the same then gets shot by a security guard.

Not sure how I am being "cavalier", but the route I'm going is that the "security guard" had just as much right to be walking down that side walk and wasn't doing anything wrong either.  If my son is ever in that position, God forbid, I hope he has enough sense to call 911 and return to his home instead of instigating a confrontation with an unknown individual.

All being said, I said before and will say again that it is a tragedy that the kid died, but I think he had a hand in the outcome and believe making it a race issue was wrong, then charging Zim with murder was wrong.  I could see a manslaughter charge.

+1


VinBucFan

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#3802 : June 29, 2013, 10:00:52 PM

Zimmerman is pleading not guilty. He has said he fatally shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in February 2012 in self-defense.

Beginning Monday, prosecutors will continue presenting their case for a second week. They are likely to call forensic experts and other investigators before defense attorneys get a chance to put on their witnesses.

Here are five key moments from the past week.

_____

EXPLETIVES AND A KNOCK-KNOCK JOKE

Both came in opening statements. Prosecutor John Guy repeated words Zimmerman had uttered under his breath to a police dispatcher as he followed Martin. In the courtroom, jaws dropped and spectators looked around at one another. Defense attorney Don West began his statement with a knock-knock joke about the difficulty of picking a jury in the case. Even he admitted the joke sounded weird.

_____

RACHEL JEANTEL VS. DON WEST

Jeantel was on the phone with Martin moments before his confrontation with Zimmerman and is considered a key prosecution witnesses. She testified that Martin told her he was being followed by "a creepy-ass **CENSORED**." But it was her testy cross-examination exchanges with West that commanded the most attention. Each asked the other to repeat what they were saying many times. At one moment, Jeantel urged West to move on to his next question: "You can go. You can go." On her second day on the stand, she seemed more subdued. West asked her, "You feeling OK today? You seem different than yesterday."

_____

"GROUND AND POUND." Even though he was called Friday by the prosecution, John Good, a former neighbor of Zimmerman, gave testimony that seemed to bolster the defense contention that Martin was on top of Zimmerman in the fight. Good said he saw Martin straddling Zimmerman in manner similar to a mixed-martial art maneuver known as "ground and pound."

_____

911 CALLS

The 911 calls made by neighbors were repeatedly played for jurors. Neighbors asked police to respond as moans for help followed by a gunshot are heard. A series of neighbors testified about what they heard of the fight, and then prosecutors played corresponding 911 calls as witnesses sat on the stand. Some neighbors teared up as they heard their panicked voices.

_____

MARTIN'S PARENTS ON RACE

Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin, Martin's parents, held a news conference Thursday in which their attorney said they didn't want race injected into the trial. Some reporters asked why the nation's most prominent black civil rights had been invited to Sanford to demand Zimmerman's arrest if race wasn't an issue. But attorney Daryl Parks said at this stage of the case, it shouldn't be a factor.


The Anti-Java

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#3803 : June 30, 2013, 03:17:52 AM

When taco vendor goes off his property and "stalks" his target, he's clearly in the wrong.


Uh I believe that was his job for the neighborhood watch

For the record, NW teaches them NOT to pursue. Having said that, pursuing is not against the law. What happened afterwards might have been.

From what I have seen, so far, the prosecution's case is really weak. If nothing changes, and I'm the defense team, I might rest my case right after
the prosecution is done. If Zimmerman somehow takes the stand, it would be a gigantic mistake, IMO.



If someone looks su**CENSORED**ious, he should follow them in his car.  But not exit the car.   That changes everything when he starts following on foot. Then he is a threat to whoever he is following.  If the guy is trying to break in a house, then you call the police.  He is supposed to be an extra set of eyes out there for the law enforcement people.  Not act like a police officer himself. They shouldn't even be allowed to carry a gun. 


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#3804 : June 30, 2013, 04:05:29 AM

Where Martin ran to wasn't accessible by car, that's why Zimmerman had to get out of his truck. Hard to be the "EYES and ears" of the community if you're sitting on your ass in your truck, thinking "hmm, wonder what's going on behind that building". No, you get out to go look. Someone is much less likely to commit a crime if they know they're being watched. Something that nobody is really talking about is WHY Trayvon decided to run. It makes no logical sense to me. You see someone looking at you, so you take off running?

VinBucFan

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#3805 : June 30, 2013, 08:34:29 AM

The claim that Z followed is misleading. He got out if his car but lost TM. TM had to come back


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#3806 : June 30, 2013, 08:59:24 AM

When taco vendor goes off his property and "stalks" his target, he's clearly in the wrong.


Uh I believe that was his job for the neighborhood watch

For the record, NW teaches them NOT to pursue. Having said that, pursuing is not against the law. What happened afterwards might have been.

From what I have seen, so far, the prosecution's case is really weak. If nothing changes, and I'm the defense team, I might rest my case right after
the prosecution is done. If Zimmerman somehow takes the stand, it would be a gigantic mistake, IMO.



If someone looks su**CENSORED**ious, he should follow them in his car.  But not exit the car.   That changes everything when he starts following on foot. Then he is a threat to whoever he is following.  If the guy is trying to break in a house, then you call the police.  He is supposed to be an extra set of eyes out there for the law enforcement people.  Not act like a police officer himself. They shouldn't even be allowed to carry a gun.
Carrying a weapon in Florida is legal is it not? If he had a license to carry it, then he had every right to have one on him. Should he have shot Trayvon? Who knows, because we don't really have the full story here and probably never will. His dumb friend on the phone with him, sure as hell didn't do him any favors.


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#3807 : June 30, 2013, 10:06:25 AM

The Stand Your Ground law is not at issue any longer in this trial but the thought process behind it was, in part, this exact scenario as unfortunate as it was. Part of the thought behind the law was that the "victim" should not bear the burden if trying to gauge an appropriate response when in fear for his or her life. Another thought was to make a would be attacker think twice because the victim might be carrying a gun (legally). The public doesn't like the result and so politicians run for the hills claiming this was not what their law envisioned and to give them cover they pressure the state attorney to appoint a special prosecutor to "prove" to the world that Zimmerman did something "unlawful" (ie, not what they intended when they wrote the law)


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#3808 : June 30, 2013, 10:09:36 AM

TM was a kid, he didn't deserve to die, but one thing tough to deny is he appears to have been a kid who didn't consider that there could be serious consequences for fighting.


ufojoe

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#3809 : June 30, 2013, 11:42:28 AM

If someone looks su**CENSORED**ious, he should follow them in his car.  But not exit the car.   That changes everything when he starts following on foot. Then he is a threat to whoever he is following.  If the guy is trying to break in a house, then you call the police.  He is supposed to be an extra set of eyes out there for the law enforcement people.  Not act like a police officer himself.

Agreed. No need to get out of his car once the police were on their way.

Not surprised the kid ran. A stranger, who didn't identify himself, was following him.

We don't know why they fought. It's possible Martin saw Z's gun and thought he was fighting for his life with the creepy ass **CENSORED**. We'll never know.

As much as I think the defense should keep Z off the stand, I'd love to see it.
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