Welcome, Guest
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  Pirate's Cove (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Trayvon Martin controversy « previous next »
Page: 1 ... 278 279 280 281 282 ... 399

CBWx2

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 5931
Offline
#4185 : July 07, 2013, 12:20:00 PM

It is hilarious to me that in a case where the defendant claimed that they killed someone in self defense, that it would be deemed inconsequential by the message board lawyer and the other "unbiased" posters that he has been caught lying numerous times about certain aspects of the conflict and to the extent that he was injured.


Kelly Thomas

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 2759
Offline
#4186 : July 07, 2013, 12:36:42 PM

It's quite logical that the state uses the (so called) missing time in this case to assist in demonstrating that during that period Zimmerman is not telling the truth about where he was and what he was doing. 

ONEBIGDADDY

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 4525
Offline
#4187 : July 07, 2013, 02:18:01 PM

Zimmerman lied about the extent of the injuries he suffered at the hands of Martin. At no point do his injuries suggest that Martin was using anything near what can be construed as deadly force against Zimmerman, which might be why Zimmerman also threw in the part about Martin reaching for his gun and telling him "you're going to die tonight", which are also two questionable parts of his accounting of events. There is little doubt, eve among those witnesses purported to be helping his defense, that Zimmerman exaggerated many aspects of the conflict to make it appear that he was in more danger than he actually was. Despite what the "unbiased" one's say, this could easily be construed by the jury as disproportionate force or imperfect self-defense, which could justifiably render a lesser verdict of manslaughter.

CBW, then: "Z clearly has no injuries, I can tell by looking at the NBC video"

CBW, now: "Z lied about the extent of those injuries that I previously told you he didn't have"

CBW: " btw, I still say he called him a **CENSORED**, because he is clearly a racist"

Lmao

Rinse, repeat, and avoid. Notice the message board lawyer says nothing about the possibility of the jury seeing Zimmerman as using disproportionate force. The prosecution has provided evidence that his injuries were minor, and that at no point was he in imminent danger. They have also disproven the legitimacy of many of the claims that Zimmerman made about how many times Martin actually hit him, that Martin was bashing his head repeatedly on the concrete, and suggestion that Martin was reaching for his gun.

If the jury believes that Zimmerman did lie about these things, which evidence suggests that he did, then it would be a reasonable assumption that the jury could see this as Zimmerman knowing the law, knowing that his injuries were not sufficient enough to justify the use of deadly force, and choosing to embellish or fabricate additional aspects of the conflict in order to justify the use of deadly force. Despite your "unbiased" claim that this is an unreasonable or unjustifiable conviction, it would be easily legally justifiable for the jury to come back with such a ruling.
CBW I have to say this...Your only quoting on the prosecutions evidence and their half of the court room proceedings...Thank God we live in America where the defense now has a turn at presenting their case. If we were to just go off of the prosecution (as weak as they have been) GZ is in Jail with 2nd degree murder. I am glad and I hope we have opened minded people that they see the complete evolution of this case from start to finish...Lets Let Them Decide...OBD


ufojoe

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 28869
Offline
#4188 : July 07, 2013, 02:56:35 PM

CBW I have to say this...Your only quoting on the prosecutions evidence

Besides Z's mom and uncle, the only evidence presented so far has been from the prosecution. So, kind of hard for any of us to comment much on the defense's case.

If we were to just go off of the prosecution (as weak as they have been) GZ is in Jail with 2nd degree murder.

Disagree. If defense had just rested after prosecution's case, I think Z MIGHT be convicted of Murder 2. But I doubt it. To much reasonable doubt. Just my opinion.

Manslaughter? More plausible. As would be an outright acquittal.

Biggs3535

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 31581
Offline
#4189 : July 07, 2013, 03:11:09 PM

Rinse, repeat, and avoid. Notice the message board lawyer says nothing about the possibility of the jury seeing Zimmerman as using disproportionate force. The prosecution has provided evidence that his injuries were minor, and that at no point was he in imminent danger. They have also disproven the legitimacy of many of the claims that Zimmerman made about how many times Martin actually hit him, that Martin was bashing his head repeatedly on the concrete, and suggestion that Martin was reaching for his gun.

Your belief in the prosecution's "evidence" isn't all that surprising, but can you please explain to be how anyone could disprove Zimmerman believed Martin could be reaching for a gun while Martin was on top of Zimmerman in the struggle?
: July 07, 2013, 03:12:47 PM Biggs3535


ONEBIGDADDY

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 4525
Offline
#4190 : July 07, 2013, 03:25:43 PM

CBW I have to say this...Your only quoting on the prosecutions evidence

Besides Z's mom and uncle, the only evidence presented so far has been from the prosecution. So, kind of hard for any of us to comment much on the defense's case.

If we were to just go off of the prosecution (as weak as they have been) GZ is in Jail with 2nd degree murder.

Disagree. If defense had just rested after prosecution's case, I think Z MIGHT be convicted of Murder 2. But I doubt it. To much reasonable doubt. Just my opinion.

Manslaughter? More plausible. As would be an outright acquittal.
With the Defense presenting the Acquittal argument and the Judge finding that there is sufficient evidence to keep the 2nd Degree murder charge intact is what i am basing my conclusion to CBW's statement....OBD 


ufojoe

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 28869
Offline
#4191 : July 07, 2013, 03:46:00 PM

Rinse, repeat, and avoid. Notice the message board lawyer says nothing about the possibility of the jury seeing Zimmerman as using disproportionate force. The prosecution has provided evidence that his injuries were minor, and that at no point was he in imminent danger. They have also disproven the legitimacy of many of the claims that Zimmerman made about how many times Martin actually hit him, that Martin was bashing his head repeatedly on the concrete, and suggestion that Martin was reaching for his gun.

Your belief in the prosecution's "evidence" isn't all that surprising, but can you please explain to be how anyone could disprove Zimmerman believed Martin could be reaching for a gun while Martin was on top of Zimmerman in the struggle?

Disprove? Without an eyewitness, that's impossible.

However, due to inconsistencies in Z's story about exactly what Martin did with regard to the gun/holster, they can consider Z to be untruthful. Did Martin only notice the gun, reach for it or did he get his hands on the gun and/or holster? Depends on which Z interview you listen to or if you read his friend's book. If the jury believes that Z lied about this and other things related (how he acquired his injuries and Martin's hand over his nose/mouth) and non-related (Martin was skipping?) to the self defense claim, I think it's enough to get a conviction. And there's no reason for you to point out that the jury may believe everything Z said. I know that.

Z said Martin was straddling him with Martin's knees right up to Z's armpits. That would make it a bit difficult for Z to grab the gun quickly. But Z never said he had any trouble getting the gun. If he did, I missed it. Will the prosecution do a reenactment (in closing arguments) where the jury can see how difficult it would be to get the gun? That may be the more probable outcome.

If the jury doesn't believe Z told the truth about the encounter and what happened throughout, they will be open to believing the prosecution's theory that will be told to them in closing arguments. Did Z have the gun already out and was that what caused Martin to scream for help and to attack Z? Witnesses heard voices arguing for a little bit before it escalated to the screams. At some point, Z was on the bottom. But was it like that the entire time? Once again, the jury may believe everything Z said and think any other story is hogwash and doesn't fit with the evidence presented. They may believe Z was on the bottom the entire time and was justified in using deadly force. Or not. I have no idea what they're thinking.
: July 07, 2013, 04:15:30 PM ufojoe

Biggs3535

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 31581
Offline
#4192 : July 07, 2013, 04:20:25 PM

Rinse, repeat, and avoid. Notice the message board lawyer says nothing about the possibility of the jury seeing Zimmerman as using disproportionate force. The prosecution has provided evidence that his injuries were minor, and that at no point was he in imminent danger. They have also disproven the legitimacy of many of the claims that Zimmerman made about how many times Martin actually hit him, that Martin was bashing his head repeatedly on the concrete, and suggestion that Martin was reaching for his gun.

Your belief in the prosecution's "evidence" isn't all that surprising, but can you please explain to be how anyone could disprove Zimmerman believed Martin could be reaching for a gun while Martin was on top of Zimmerman in the struggle?

Disprove? Without an eyewitness, that's impossible.

I'm aware, which is why I was pointing that out to CBW.


ufojoe

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 28869
Offline
#4193 : July 07, 2013, 04:30:59 PM


Good article and one view on the trial...

Analysis: George Zimmerman Probably Won't Be Convicted of Murder or Manslaughter -- Here's Why

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-convicted-murder-manslaughter/story?id=19598422&page=2#.UdnN6haieqM

VinBucFan

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 19540
Offline
#4194 : July 07, 2013, 05:05:49 PM

It is hilarious to me that in a case where the defendant claimed that they killed someone in self defense, that it would be deemed inconsequential by the message board lawyer and the other "unbiased" posters that he has been caught lying numerous times about certain aspects of the conflict and to the extent that he was injured.

CBW, if he was "caught lying" did the prosecution address it in their case in chief? If not, then they will on cross if he testifies and they will not if he does not. It's not that complicated. More importantly, none of that changes your ridiculous, absurd, premature and now denonstrably false statements early in this case, none if which i have ever seen you acknowledged as mistakes. You are a one man virtual lynch mob. Lol.


Now, how did the encounter take place where it did without TM doubling back and was Zimmerman lying when he said "thank God" in response to the detectives telling him everything was captured on video?
: July 07, 2013, 05:51:32 PM VinBucFan


VinBucFan

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 19540
Offline
#4195 : July 07, 2013, 05:18:05 PM

Joe, not that you care but one thing you seem to leave out is that yes the prosecution will give its "theory" in closing BUT this is a criminal matter with a reasonable doubt standard ....so if the prosecution lays out a "theory" the defense will respond by putting the "theory" on a chart for the jury and then the defense will point out every instance where there are no facts, just "theory."  That is a losing case for any prosecution ... Well, except for one where a Governor-appointed special prosecutor charges a guy with Murder 2 even though he said "thank God" when told the event was captured on video. Lol.

The shocking thing in this thread is that some are so interested in lynching Zimmerman that they don't even care about the grotesque conduct if the State. Hope they should all be do lucky as to never find themselves in the sights of the State.


BucsnNoles

*****
Pro Bowler

Posts : 1213
Offline
#4196 : July 07, 2013, 07:50:53 PM

If the jury doesn't believe Z told the truth about the encounter and what happened throughout, they will be open to believing the prosecution's theory that will be told to them in closing arguments. Did Z have the gun already out and was that what caused Martin to scream for help and to attack Z? Witnesses heard voices arguing for a little bit before it escalated to the screams. At some point, Z was on the bottom. But was it like that the entire time? Once again, the jury may believe everything Z said and think any other story is hogwash and doesn't fit with the evidence presented. They may believe Z was on the bottom the entire time and was justified in using deadly force. Or not. I have no idea what they're thinking.
It's a good thing that the jury saw John Good's testimony.  It seems that you obviously didn't.

ufojoe

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 28869
Offline
#4197 : July 07, 2013, 08:43:02 PM

If the jury doesn't believe Z told the truth about the encounter and what happened throughout, they will be open to believing the prosecution's theory that will be told to them in closing arguments. Did Z have the gun already out and was that what caused Martin to scream for help and to attack Z? Witnesses heard voices arguing for a little bit before it escalated to the screams. At some point, Z was on the bottom. But was it like that the entire time? Once again, the jury may believe everything Z said and think any other story is hogwash and doesn't fit with the evidence presented. They may believe Z was on the bottom the entire time and was justified in using deadly force. Or not. I have no idea what they're thinking.
It's a good thing that the jury saw John Good's testimony.  It seems that you obviously didn't.

Good's testimony may trump all the other "eye" witnesses. Or not.  Remember, he saw MMA-type blows being thrown down from the person on top to the person on the bottom. And Zimmerman was taking MMA training or classes. Add in the other witnesses who saw Z on top and Good's testimony may not be a slam dunk for the defense to the jury. Maybe at various times, Z was on top and at other times, it was Martin? From the various witness testimony, it seemed like the argument/fight lasted more than a few seconds. Maybe a few minutes? How long from when Jeantal's phone cut off to the gun shot on 911 call?

Good thing you understand I'm throwing out scenarios where the prosecution can get a conviction.

Escobar06

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 2548
Offline
#4198 : July 07, 2013, 08:58:11 PM

If the jury doesn't believe Z told the truth about the encounter and what happened throughout, they will be open to believing the prosecution's theory that will be told to them in closing arguments. Did Z have the gun already out and was that what caused Martin to scream for help and to attack Z? Witnesses heard voices arguing for a little bit before it escalated to the screams. At some point, Z was on the bottom. But was it like that the entire time? Once again, the jury may believe everything Z said and think any other story is hogwash and doesn't fit with the evidence presented. They may believe Z was on the bottom the entire time and was justified in using deadly force. Or not. I have no idea what they're thinking.
It's a good thing that the jury saw John Good's testimony.  It seems that you obviously didn't.

Good's testimony may trump all the other "eye" witnesses. Or not.  Remember, he saw MMA-type blows being thrown down from the person on top to the person on the bottom. And Zimmerman was taking MMA training or classes. Add in the other witnesses who saw Z on top and Good's testimony may not be a slam dunk for the defense to the jury. Maybe at various times, Z was on top and at other times, it was Martin? From the various witness testimony, it seemed like the argument/fight lasted more than a few seconds. Maybe a few minutes? How long from when Jeantal's phone cut off to the gun shot on 911 call?

Good thing you understand I'm throwing out scenarios where the prosecution can get a conviction.


So let me get this straight. In your world it's possible that Zimmerman was on top throwing down MMA type blows and missing with literally every single one. Meanwhile, Trayvon, while laying on his back, is screaming for  help and dishing out damage to both the front and back of Zimmerman's head. In this scenario they also swapped clothing before the incident took place, and afterwards Zimmerman rolled around in the wet grass to make it appear as if he was laying on his back. Air tight, logical, and entertaining.


VinBucFan

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 19540
Offline
#4199 : July 07, 2013, 09:20:55 PM

The MMA link is laughable. A witness paints an image many have seen on TV and that somehow becomes a technical description for the blows ... Which links it back to Z?  That is a stretch that would make Captain Elastic blush.

Page: 1 ... 278 279 280 281 282 ... 399
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  Pirate's Cove (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: Trayvon Martin controversy « previous next »
:

Hide Tools Show Tools