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CalcuttaRain

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#4530 : July 12, 2013, 11:00:03 AM

Prosecution can maintain that a four minute pursuit happened all they want, it's in the jurors minds that Trayvon had more than enough time to go home. What was there to chase if Trayvon went home? Nothing. There's a reason prosecution ignored this aspect the entire case, they know, as we all know, that Trayvon made the choice to avoid going home and to confront Zimmerman instead.

There was a "four minute pursuit"? Is that what the State argued? 

There was a "four minute pursuit" by Z chasing TM? Z could run for four minutes chasing a teenager?  Nobody in the entire complex -- not a single withness observed or heard the "four minute pursuit?" After a "four minute pursuit" they end up right back where Z would have started the "four minute pursuit?"

If that is the State's argument, its awful.

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#4531 : July 12, 2013, 11:31:42 AM

Just to illustrate how different the legal process is from the real world, compare this thread to MoM's description of reasonable doubt.  He just CORRECTLY stated that jurors have to start from position of INNOCENT and only be pulled off INNOCENT when a fact is proven BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.  If you go back early in the thread, you will see a lot of the opposite, starting with GUILTY and then looking at the evidence.  Human nature and many of the jurors take the same approach
: July 12, 2013, 11:36:32 AM VinBucFan

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#4532 : July 12, 2013, 11:51:53 AM


Very god job by MOM. He was more sure of himself than BDLR.

But next up is the closer: Guy.

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#4533 : July 12, 2013, 11:56:59 AM

Prosecution can maintain that a four minute pursuit happened all they want, it's in the jurors minds that Trayvon had more than enough time to go home. What was there to chase if Trayvon went home? Nothing. There's a reason prosecution ignored this aspect the entire case, they know, as we all know, that Trayvon made the choice to avoid going home and to confront Zimmerman instead.

There was a "four minute pursuit"? Is that what the State argued? 

There was a "four minute pursuit" by Z chasing TM? Z could run for four minutes chasing a teenager?  Nobody in the entire complex -- not a single withness observed or heard the "four minute pursuit?" After a "four minute pursuit" they end up right back where Z would have started the "four minute pursuit?"

If that is the State's argument, its awful.


From the time Zimmerman initially saw Trayvon head behind the townhomes, to the time of the incident, was roughly four minutes. We can deduct about a minute and a half I believe, because Zimmerman was still on the phone with dispatch. So even if the state wanted to "prove" that Zimmerman chased Trayvon (no evidence whatsoever) they'd have to account for the minute and a half that Zimmerman was still on the phone with police. During this time there was more than enough time for him to go home, there's just no way around it. This, of course, is why they avoided touching on this subject for the entire trial. There's only ONE logical conclusion that can be made, and they don't want the jury to pay attention to that conclusion, so they avoided it. They didn't even try to spin this particular fact, they could have said what some in this thread said "he was afraid and didn't want to lead GZ to his home", they could have SPECULATED as to what happened, but they didn't even try. If I'm a juror there's no getting around it, the state didn't touch on this because even they know it leads to one, and only one, conclusion.

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#4534 : July 12, 2013, 11:58:07 AM

MoM did pretty well. I thought he was more effective in his first half performance than his second half. But he did well in establishing reasonable doubt. I was a little bit disappointed in his performance but, I'd give him a B+ or A-.

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#4535 : July 12, 2013, 12:01:57 PM


Yeah, MOM ended with some low energy. But overall, very effective.

Right now, if I had to make that small bet, ($20) I'd bet on acquittal.

But as the women call him, Guy McDreamy is up next and may change that.

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#4536 : July 12, 2013, 12:02:05 PM

I like how MoM ended, by saying that he suggests they go back there and immediately decide if there's a possibility that it could have been self defense. They don't even need to decide that it WAS self defense, only that it COULD HAVE been. And right there, the case is over. I like how he tried to make that point. The jury is going to take some time, because they want to give the impression that they are going over every spec of evidence. But in reality I believe each of them already knows whether they have doubt or not, and in reality the entire deliberation could take less than a minute.

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#4537 : July 12, 2013, 12:05:55 PM

"Right now, if I had to make that small bet, ($20) I'd bet on acquittal."

Joe's gambling vice rears its head again.

TheChronicHotAir

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#4538 : July 12, 2013, 12:13:21 PM

"Why are you following me?" ~ Trayvon Martin


CalcuttaRain

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#4539 : July 12, 2013, 12:13:23 PM

Interesting case "4 minutes" versus "what was in his heart"

Calling TM a "child" repeatedly is a high risk play. It may work but the State may also lose credibility

Also strange is that the State is talking about "what really happened" in a criminal case . .  its an admission that they asking the jury to suspend doubt and fill in blanks on their own.

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#4540 : July 12, 2013, 12:17:15 PM

Just as I suspected, Guy picks up the "chase" AFTER the phone call to dispatch ended. He completely ignores the minute and a half that Trayvon had to make it home. The jury HAS to see this.

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#4541 : July 12, 2013, 12:21:56 PM

So was he sitting on his chest like they showed on the mannequin or on his waist...

CalcuttaRain

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#4542 : July 12, 2013, 12:27:44 PM

Guy is doing a good job but has tough facts to deal with.

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\\\\\\\'s Cancer Center

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#4543 : July 12, 2013, 12:31:17 PM

If he had no idea the gun was there...why would he be fighting for his life. Not adding up.

Escobar06

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#4544 : July 12, 2013, 12:33:31 PM

My thoughts exactly. As I said yesterday, the state keeps going back and forth, one point they're claiming Trayvon saw the gun and was afraid for his life, the next they're claiming he couldn't possibly see the gun. As MoM says, SERIOUSLY?
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