FSU to the Big 12? Pros and Cons. other questions.

[olafberserker]

It explains how he came about the numbers.    UF is in the top 10.  Not sure why you think their numbers would be higher, but oh well.    At the end of the day that is a pretty good explanation as to why a Texas A & M would be wanted more than FSU.   

[dexmonkey]

its all about percieved markets. just because FSU is crossover doesnt mean they dont add much. we will see if it pays off or not but i doubt it. ive already read reports that the SEC brass arent real happy with the returns they got from adding missouri and Tamu. more mouths to feed and they arent bringing as much as they thought they would. this might temper their desire to expand for a little bit

in reality if the SEC wanted to be a great conference top to bottom, in an ideal world, they would add clemson and fsu and boot missouri and Tamu since they dont fit. then add miami and georgia tech and you have a true southeastern conference.

too bad itll never happen

[Runole]

FSU and Miami are national TV Draws and earn top Nielson ratings.  While I understand the reasoning behind Missouri and A&M in terms of new geographic areas neither compares with FSU or Miami in terms of National TV ratings.


In agreement with Dex  when Bama plays Miami it will get huge TV ratings!  Same with any of the Big 6 against either FSU or Miami.



Truthfully, it has little to do with the extra profits FSU and Miami would bring to the SEC but more to do with the fact that the SEC has enough tough teams already and the Big 6 (BAMA ,UF, TENN, GEORGIA , LSU, AND AUBURN) don't want to worry about playing Miami or FSU on their schedule.  A&M Missouri are far less daunting teams to play.

[olafberserker]

Yeah, that's what it is .... lol

[dexmonkey]

actually that is what it is. nothing wrong with admitting it. every team thinks that way. you generally schedule one good nonconference team and play the rest in conference. it makes your path to the national title that much harder and nowadays you dont have to schedule like you did in the 80s and 90s to get there. why do you think you see alot more cupcakes on everyone's schedule?

[GameTime]

im sure UF doesnt want fsu, and usc doesnt want clemson to join the SEC...but if they were cashcows i believe it would happen.  i dont believe the issue was bringing more powerful teams into the conference....heck, fsu and clemson have only been slightly above .500 the last few years.  the issue is bigger tv markets imo.

[olafberserker]

actually that is what it is. nothing wrong with admitting it. every team thinks that way. you generally schedule one good nonconference team and play the rest in conference. it makes your path to the national title that much harder and nowadays you dont have to schedule like you did in the 80s and 90s to get there. why do you think you see alot more cupcakes on everyone's schedule?

and how is that different since they brought in TAM and Mizzo instead of FSU and Clemson?   

[dexmonkey]

im sure UF doesnt want fsu, and usc doesnt want clemson to join the SEC...but if they were cashcows i believe it would happen.  i dont believe the issue was bringing more powerful teams into the conference....heck, fsu and clemson have only been slightly above .500 the last few years.  the issue is bigger tv markets imo.

correct on first point. UGA doesnt want Tech. USC doesnt want clemson. UF doesnt want FSU. FSU and Clemson are cashcows, but not in the way they want. they are looking at it as TV set money. not as matchup money. kinda assbackwards because better matchups for tv = more money and ratings. it will be interesting to see if this pays off but i dont know if it will. the ACC thought they were gonna kill it by getting BC and the Boston market but it didnt happen. Virginia Tech has the DC market and its nothing special as well. also ESPN completely whores out to the SEC as it is so i dont see the difference. BIG 12 is still gonna get the majority of the play in Texas so i dont really get it.

to me the whole tv markets thing is a crock. it hasnt proven to be a big moneymaker for other conferences. its all about getting teams people want to watch

[dexmonkey]

@olafberserker

i dont think they add anything to the conference as a whole. just mouths to feed. its kinda like adding mississippi and mississippi state. they dont really bring alot to the table. mediocre programs in new areas, thats all theyve gotten. everyone ive talked to is less than thrilled with adding these two turds. they wanted FSU/clemson or nothing at all. to be honest the SEC was just fine at 12 teams

[olafberserker]

sounds a lot like sour grapes ......

[dexmonkey]

not really. im under no illusion that wed get into the SEC, everyone knows UF wouldnt stand for it. theyd have to be outvoted and UF swings a pretty big stick in that conference. i just want out of the ACC

[Feel Real Good]

not really. im under no illusion that wed get into the SEC, everyone knows UF wouldnt stand for it. theyd have to be outvoted and UF swings a pretty big stick in that conference. i just want out of the ACC

FSU could have joined in 1990 but Bowden didn't want to have to play Florida, Alabama, and Auburn every year. He said, “I like to win games, and I can’t think of a tougher place to do that than the SEC. Most conferences have got two really strong programs, but top to bottom there isn’t one close to the SEC.” And he still feels that way. Just a month ago he said, “My message would be stay in the ACC. Do you want to win a National Championship at Florida State? You’ve got a better chance in the ACC than you have in the Big 12, or even the SEC. You say, ‘Well, gosh, they’re much stronger in those conferences.’ Yeah! They beat up on each other and you can’t hardly get there. You know what? Florida State, wait ‘til you get good enough to rule the ACC then you start looking for someplace to jump. But my opinion? They should stay right where they are.”

[dexmonkey]

well we arent listening to bobby bowden anymore. i love the old man for what he did for the program but i have a hard time forgiving what he did to the program the last 6 years he was there. his stubbornness is what led to us falling off so greatly.

we played Florida every year anyway so that game was a wash. Auburn paid money to get out of a series with us because we stomped them so bad so theres another wash. alabama was the only other team to compete with. he wanted to be king of a conference, which we became.

the whole FSU and the SEC thing from 1990 is a real urban legend as well. we never recieved an offer from the SEC. yes bobby said he didnt feel like slogging through the SEC every year. but the thing that everyone ignores is that we played a ridiculously difficult schedule every year for the previous 15 and didnt feel like continuing to do that. LSU, Auburn, UF, Notre Dame, Michigan, Nebraska and Miami were all fixtures on that schedule and nobody played a tougher one than us.

lets not forget that the SEC wasnt the juggernaut it is today. at the time the ACC offered a much better deal. in the early 90s Georgia tech had just won the NC. maryland, clemson, and UNC were all solid teams. the two conferences were actually very comparable. the kicker in the deal was the ACC deal was worth more money. contrary to popular belief basketball revenue was worth more at one time than football

[Runole]

not really. im under no illusion that wed get into the SEC, everyone knows UF wouldnt stand for it. theyd have to be outvoted and UF swings a pretty big stick in that conference. i just want out of the ACC

FSU could have joined in 1990 but Bowden didn't want to have to play Florida, Alabama, and Auburn every year. He said, “I like to win games, and I can’t think of a tougher place to do that than the SEC. Most conferences have got two really strong programs, but top to bottom there isn’t one close to the SEC.” And he still feels that way. Just a month ago he said, “My message would be stay in the ACC. Do you want to win a National Championship at Florida State? You’ve got a better chance in the ACC than you have in the Big 12, or even the SEC. You say, ‘Well, gosh, they’re much stronger in those conferences.’ Yeah! They beat up on each other and you can’t hardly get there. You know what? Florida State, wait ‘til you get good enough to rule the ACC then you start looking for someplace to jump. But my opinion? They should stay right where they are.”

This myth needs to die.  FSU and Bowden always wanted to get into the SEC but when the ACC showed up with a better offer, the SEC folded their tents and stated to the world they weren't interested in FSU.    Yes, Bowden made his usual self deprecating remarks after FSU joined the ACC but that is just Bobby being Bobby. As to those recent statements there certainly is some truth to those statements.  Kind of hard to claim how bad the ACC is when you haven't won a conference championship since 2005.

Bottom line the SEC has enough tough teams they don't need anymore.  Heck, that is why UF dropped Miami back in 1987 and likewise stopped playing any out of conference game outside the state of Florida after they lost to Syracuse in the early 90's.   

There are TWO absolute plums available in terms of Nielsen ratings and fan attendance and they are Notre Dame and FSU.    Notre Dame wants to stay independent but that will depend on how the new champion is going to be selected for them to stay that way.  The ACC just signed a horrible deal extension which clearly is way below market value considering the population areas that conference covers.   FSU certainly should listen to offers but in the end only the SEC or the ACC make sense if they can ever get  some sort of extra compensation for the revenue they bring to conference.  Kind of hard to see little Wake Forest and what revenues it brings into the ACC and what it spends versus FSU and what it brings to the conference versus its expenditures.   Both get an equal share???

The ACC officiating has been horrible and needs to be upgraded and FSU should be playing GT every year.  The divisions need to be restructured.

[Runole]

Maybe this will help:

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/the-geography-of-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/

The S.E.C.’s interest in Texas A&M becomes easier to understand once you recognize that the Aggies have among the largest fan bases in the country.

Do you actually think the conclusions in that article are accurate concerning the FSU fan base?

The article looks like pretty good research but fails miserably in its conclusions

fan followings in order??
Clemson
Georgia Tech
Virginia Tech
Miami
North Carolina
Boston College
FSU    Funny FSU is ranked # 2 in stadium attendance behind Clemson last  season but has less fans than those above on the list?   back to the drawing board with that research..

Additionally looking at that map of alleged Fan interest   if 495 people in a particular town in Alabama out of 500 watch Bama every game does that truly equate to 10,000 people that watch FSU every Saturday in Tampa?