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CBWx2

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« #510 : October 30, 2012, 06:33:42 PM »

What's the definition of fraud, counselor?


VinBucFan

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« #511 : October 30, 2012, 06:47:20 PM »

Still waiting for some proof from you on this Voter ID...

Not only is that the longest running straw man, it is also dripping with irony for anyone who cares to actually read the law: 

"The complaints in the consolidated cases allege that the new law substantially burdens the right to vote in violation of the Fourteenth Amendment; that it is neither a necessary nor appropriate method of avoiding election fraud; and that it will arbitrarily disfranchise qualified voters who do not possess the required identification and will place an unjustified burden on those who cannot readily obtain such identification. Second Amended Complaint in No. 1: 05–CV–0634–SEB–VSS (SD Ind.), pp. 6–9 (hereinafter Second Amended Complaint). (SOUNDS LIKE CBW and DURANGO, right?)

 After discovery, District Judge Barker prepared a comprehensive 70-page opinion explaining her decision to grant defendants’ motion for summary judgment. 458 F. Supp. 2d 775 (SD Ind. 2006). She found that petitioners had “not introduced evidence of a single, individual Indiana resident who will be unable to vote as a result of SEA 483 or who will have his or her right to vote unduly burdened by its requirements.” Id., at 783"



It's also dripping with irony when one considers the evolution of voter laws that led Indiana and other states to pass voter ID laws:

"In the National Voter Registration Act of 1993 (NVRA), 107Stat. 77, 42 U. S. C. §1973gget seq., Congress established procedures that would both increase the number of registered voters and protect the integrity of the electoral process. §1973gg. The statute requires state motor vehicle driver’s license applications to serve as voter registration applications. §1973gg–3. While that requirement has increased the number of registered voters, the statute also contains a provision restricting States’ ability to remove names from the lists of registered voters. §1973gg–6(a)(3). These protections have been partly responsible for inflated lists of registered voters. For example, evidence credited by Judge Barker estimated that as of 2004 Indiana’s voter rolls were inflated by as much as 41.4%, see 458 F. Supp. 2d, at 793, and data collected by the Election Assistance Committee in 2004 indicated that 19 of 92 Indiana counties had registration totals exceeding 100% of the 2004 voting-age population, Dept. of Justice Complaint in United States v. Indiana, No. 1:06–cv–1000–RLY–TAB (SD Ind., June 27, 2006), p. 4, App. 313"

Should sound familiar if you are in Florida . . .

Election laws are a political football.  Democrats insert provisions like the one on NVRA and Republicans respond with laws like the Indiana Voter ID law. That is why the US Supreme Court was smart enough to avoid the politics and apply a sober CONSTITUTIONAL analysis.  While people like Durango and CBW raise the same arguments that failed in the Indiana case, the Supreme Court stated why their argument is a straw man and that simply is the State does not need evidence of actual fraud, as succinctly stated by one of Durango and CBW's heroes, Jimmy Carter:

"There is no evidence of extensive fraud in U. S. elections or of multiple voting, but both occur, and it could affect the outcome of a close election. The electoral system cannot inspire public confidence if no safeguards exist to deter or detect fraud or to confirm the identity of voters. Photo identification cards currently are needed to board a plane, enter federal buildings, and cash a check. Voting is equally important.” Commission on Federal Election Reform, Report, Building Confidence in U. S. Elections §2.5 (Sept. 2005), App. 136–137 (Carter-Baker Report) (footnote omitted"

THE STATE DOES NOT NEED PROOF OF ACTUAL FRAUD because it has a compelling interest in ensuring or trying to ensure a process that is free from fraud and that inspires confidence in the most important process in American society:

[size=10pt]"There is no question about the legitimacy or importance of the State’s interest in counting only the votes of eligible voters. Moreover, the interest in orderly administration and accurate recordkeeping provides a sufficient justification for carefully identifying all voters participating in the election process. While the most effective method of preventing election fraud may well be debatable, the propriety of doing so is perfectly clear."[/color][/b][/size]

That is why people with POLITICAL MOTIVATIONS (like Durango and CBW) keep making the same straw man argument . . . over . . . . and over . . .  and over . . . and over . .
« : October 30, 2012, 07:07:43 PM VinBucFan »

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

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VinBucFan

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« #512 : October 30, 2012, 06:50:11 PM »

What's the definition of fraud, counselor?

Not interested in descending into the black hole, but thanks . .

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\'s Cancer Center

olafberserker

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« #513 : October 30, 2012, 08:00:24 PM »

^^^^^^^^  Perhaps the longest running straw man argument ever .... wonder why?    :D


This thread is full of fail, and the fail just keeps on coming.

most accurate thing I think you've ever said .... of course you are the main author of said "fail"
« : October 30, 2012, 08:03:13 PM olafberserker »

VinBucFan

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« #514 : February 13, 2013, 11:28:37 PM »

These are statements made by a former Republican party chair admitting to discussing voter suppression with party leaders. I'd say that it isn't me "thinking" this/supports my position. I'd say that it does support my position.

The former Republican party chair who "admitted" discussing "voter suppression with party leaders"  just admitted to being guilty of committing FIVE felonies.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/article1275123.ece

"For more than two years, Damon Chase, the Lake Mary civil lawyer who represented Greer, hurled insults at party officials insisting the investigation was an attempt to destroy Greer. Chase even predicted that everyone would die in the end like a Shakespearean tragedy. Instead, Chase stood silently beside Greer as he answered, "Guilty, your honor'' five times."

oops . . .

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\'s Cancer Center

Bayfisher

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« #515 : February 14, 2013, 01:06:35 PM »

What's the definition of fraud, counselor?

Not interested in descending into the black hole, but thanks . .
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2013/02/08/democratic-ohio-poll-watcher-yeah-i-voted-for-obama-twice-n1508509

CBWx2

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« #516 : February 19, 2013, 11:08:33 AM »

These are statements made by a former Republican party chair admitting to discussing voter suppression with party leaders. I'd say that it isn't me "thinking" this/supports my position. I'd say that it does support my position.

The former Republican party chair who "admitted" discussing "voter suppression with party leaders"  just admitted to being guilty of committing FIVE felonies.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/article1275123.ece

"For more than two years, Damon Chase, the Lake Mary civil lawyer who represented Greer, hurled insults at party officials insisting the investigation was an attempt to destroy Greer. Chase even predicted that everyone would die in the end like a Shakespearean tragedy. Instead, Chase stood silently beside Greer as he answered, "Guilty, your honor'' five times."

oops . . .

And this proves that Republican party leaders did not discuss voter suppression how, exactly?


CBWx2

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« #517 : February 19, 2013, 11:09:27 AM »

What's the definition of fraud, counselor?

Not interested in descending into the black hole, but thanks . .
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2013/02/08/democratic-ohio-poll-watcher-yeah-i-voted-for-obama-twice-n1508509

Is this fraud, Bayfisher? And in the end, did it matter, Bayfisher? Would a voter ID law have prevented this, Bayfisher?


VinBucFan

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« #518 : February 19, 2013, 11:46:42 AM »

These are statements made by a former Republican party chair admitting to discussing voter suppression with party leaders. I'd say that it isn't me "thinking" this/supports my position. I'd say that it does support my position.

The former Republican party chair who "admitted" discussing "voter suppression with party leaders"  just admitted to being guilty of committing FIVE felonies.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/article1275123.ece

"For more than two years, Damon Chase, the Lake Mary civil lawyer who represented Greer, hurled insults at party officials insisting the investigation was an attempt to destroy Greer. Chase even predicted that everyone would die in the end like a Shakespearean tragedy. Instead, Chase stood silently beside Greer as he answered, "Guilty, your honor'' five times."

oops . . .

And this proves that Republican party leaders did not discuss voter suppression how, exactly?

CBW:                                  "I say there are little green men on Mars because Dave the guy who drinks from paper bags on the corner told me so"

The rest of the world:       "Uh, CBW you relaize your source is unreliable because he's NUTS right?"

CBW:                                  "How does the fact that  Dave is NUTS disprove that there are little green men on Mars?"

 ???

You made the claim, relying on a ridiculous source who has now been convicted of 5 felonies . . .  and now the burden is on everyone else to prove  that your false claim from a ridiculously unreliable source is . . . . . .  false??????

(Thanks for the laugh)

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\'s Cancer Center

CBWx2

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« #519 : February 19, 2013, 12:12:40 PM »

These are statements made by a former Republican party chair admitting to discussing voter suppression with party leaders. I'd say that it isn't me "thinking" this/supports my position. I'd say that it does support my position.

The former Republican party chair who "admitted" discussing "voter suppression with party leaders"  just admitted to being guilty of committing FIVE felonies.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/article1275123.ece

"For more than two years, Damon Chase, the Lake Mary civil lawyer who represented Greer, hurled insults at party officials insisting the investigation was an attempt to destroy Greer. Chase even predicted that everyone would die in the end like a Shakespearean tragedy. Instead, Chase stood silently beside Greer as he answered, "Guilty, your honor'' five times."

oops . . .

And this proves that Republican party leaders did not discuss voter suppression how, exactly?

CBW:                                  "I say there are little green men on Mars because Dave the guy who drinks from paper bags on the corner told me so"

The rest of the world:       "Uh, CBW you relaize your source is unreliable because he's NUTS right?"

CBW:                                  "How does the fact that  Dave is NUTS disprove that there are little green men on Mars?"

 ???

You made the claim, relying on a ridiculous source who has now been convicted of 5 felonies . . .  and now the burden is on everyone else to prove  that your false claim from a ridiculously unreliable source is . . . . . .  false??????

(Thanks for the laugh)
So because Greer pleaded guilty to committing crimes that makes him nuts? Is anything said by anyone convicted of a crime automatically false or contrived, even when it has absolutely nothing to do with the crimes he pleaded guilty to? Interesting attitude for an attorney to have...


spartan

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« #520 : February 19, 2013, 03:02:41 PM »


So because Greer pleaded guilty to committing crimes that makes him nuts? Is anything said by anyone convicted of a crime automatically false or contrived, even when it has absolutely nothing to do with the crimes he pleaded guilty to? Interesting attitude for an attorney to have...

But it does question his credibility don't you think? Especially when the basis of complaints was he will take everyone down with him unless they strike a deal.  Perhaps they did (in which case it doesn't look like a very good one), or maybe he had squat to back it up?


With regards to the poll worker voting 6 times, it causes another eyebrow to be raised in all those districts that voted 98, 99,100% for Obama doesn't it?

CBWx2

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« #521 : February 19, 2013, 03:12:30 PM »


So because Greer pleaded guilty to committing crimes that makes him nuts? Is anything said by anyone convicted of a crime automatically false or contrived, even when it has absolutely nothing to do with the crimes he pleaded guilty to? Interesting attitude for an attorney to have...

But it does question his credibility don't you think?

Only if you want to question it, which you and Vin obviously do. Greer had nothing to gain by making the claim then, and even less to gain by standing by it now. Greer also isn't the only one who made the claim. Former Republican Gov. Charlie Christ confirmed Greer's claims in an interview given shortly after he made them. But hey, I'm sure a rant about Christ's credibility is to follow. No former Republican who says anything bad about Republicans could possibly be telling the truth, right?

With regards to the poll worker voting 6 times, it causes another eyebrow to be raised in all those districts that voted 98, 99,100% for Obama doesn't it?

Not really. Why did this person make the news if this sort of thing happens all the time? Things that happen all the time aren't exactly newsworthy, are they?


spartan

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« #522 : February 19, 2013, 03:56:04 PM »


So because Greer pleaded guilty to committing crimes that makes him nuts? Is anything said by anyone convicted of a crime automatically false or contrived, even when it has absolutely nothing to do with the crimes he pleaded guilty to? Interesting attitude for an attorney to have...

But it does question his credibility don't you think?

Only if you want to question it, which you and Vin obviously do. Greer had nothing to gain by making the claim then, and even less to gain by standing by it now. Greer also isn't the only one who made the claim. Former Republican Gov. Charlie Christ confirmed Greer's claims in an interview given shortly after he made them. But hey, I'm sure a rant about Christ's credibility is to follow. No former Republican who says anything bad about Republicans could possibly be telling the truth, right?

With regards to the poll worker voting 6 times, it causes another eyebrow to be raised in all those districts that voted 98, 99,100% for Obama doesn't it?

Not really. Why did this person make the news if this sort of thing happens all the time? Things that happen all the time aren't exactly newsworthy, are they?

No need to go on any rant. Just going to point out the nature of your sources are, shall we say, of questionable motive. What you and they say could be true, I don't know, but I'm not exactly going to fall over myself to defend or believe them in the absence of other corroborating evidence.

What's more, people are having so much fun with these voter fraud stories because not so long ago, someone who shall remain nameless went to great lengths to point out that it never happened, then it never happened a lot to they don't effect the result. It is fun watching it "evolve." :)

CBWx2

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« #523 : February 19, 2013, 04:58:18 PM »

What's more, people are having so much fun with these voter fraud stories because not so long ago, someone who shall remain nameless went to great lengths to point out that it never happened, then it never happened a lot to they don't effect the result. It is fun watching it "evolve." :)

It's no wonder that they would remain nameless, given that I don't recall a single soul saying that it never happened at any point of the discussion.

There is also the little matter about this actually being fraud, and/or this actually being the type of fraud that voter ID laws are designed to prevent, but hey, why burden ourselves with that little minor tidbit.
« : February 19, 2013, 05:00:58 PM CBWx2 »


spartan

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« #524 : February 19, 2013, 06:02:48 PM »

I am thinking that statistically speaking 0.0007% = never happens.

And it's still fun watching you run around putting out the fires.
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