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VinBucFan

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#165 : June 22, 2013, 11:23:17 AM

That is different than have a "dream team" assembled

lolz

or this:

"In the foreground, the Heat continue to bask in the glory of their 2010 coup as they chase another championship. But that coup created quite the backlash in the league. There's an entire section of the NBA's collective bargaining agreement, ratified in 2011, that could be titled "the Anti-Heat rules."

The reasons for those new rules are a complex mix of philosophical differences and plain jealousy. But in any case, very soon, the Heat franchise will face challenges in keeping its glittering team together.


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9073693/nba-lebron-james-next-decision

lol

Biggs3535

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#166 : June 22, 2013, 12:02:55 PM

Naturally, neither of those posts has anything to do with chastising James for being surrounded by great players while ignoring Jordan was also surrounded by great players.

You're, again, oblivious to your own hypocrisy.


GameTime

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#167 : June 22, 2013, 12:04:07 PM

Btw, with Pippen at the helm sans Jordan . .  what happened to the championships?
good point.  i think the year jordan played baseball the bulls only won 55 games and made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

VinBucFan

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#168 : June 22, 2013, 12:07:13 PM

Btw, with Pippen at the helm sans Jordan . .  what happened to the championships?
good point.  i think the year jordan played baseball the bulls only won 55 games and made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs.

I couldn't recall actually, but what I was thinking of, and it might have been the following yer, was the last shot fiasco?  Where Pippen refused to play or something like that?  I think they lost, but it was a long time ago.


 Pippen was a great player, but he was not the closer that Jordan was or even close.  Not knocking him, praising Jordan

VinBucFan

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#169 : June 22, 2013, 12:10:03 PM

Naturally, neither of those posts has anything to do with chastising James for being surrounded by great players while ignoring Jordan was also surrounded by great players.

You're, again, oblivious to your own hypocrisy.

"chastising James for being surrounded by great players"  quote?

"ignoring Jordan was also surrounded by great players"  quote?

My comments were about THE DIFFERENCES IN THEIR PERSONALITIES .  . . .

No doubt James is very talented.  The difference between James and Jordan is that James may win a lot of championships but, if so, he will need to do so with some established players around him (Bosch, Wade etc).  Jordan turned players into established players, guys like BJ Armstrong, John Paxton etc., role players lifted by Jordan's play and personalityThat's not a knock on James because he is very good, he just has a different personality and approach.

calling a guy "very talented" is "chastising" . .  . let alone for the fact that he was Wade and Bosh?  C'mon man.  I also did not "ignore" the players around Jordan, I said they were different because most were not established stars like Wade and Bosh. . . .  The Buls were built around Jordan and he carried them mostly.  The Heat were specifically constructed as a "dream team" of sorts


and by the way, you are the one that chose to quote two things I said, I just showed you the factual predicate
: June 22, 2013, 12:14:49 PM VinBucFan

Biggs3535

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#170 : June 22, 2013, 01:42:10 PM

Btw, with Pippen at the helm sans Jordan . .  what happened to the championships?
good point.  i think the year jordan played baseball the bulls only won 55 games and made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs.

And before James joined the Heat, they only won 47 games and lost in the first round of the playoffs

I'm not sure what the point is.  The Bulls were better with Jordan?  Who would have guessed that?


VinBucFan

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#171 : June 22, 2013, 01:54:02 PM

Btw, with Pippen at the helm sans Jordan . .  what happened to the championships?
good point.  i think the year jordan played baseball the bulls only won 55 games and made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs.

And before James joined the Heat, they only won 47 games and lost in the first round of the playoffs

I'm not sure what the point is.  The Bulls were better with Jordan?  Who would have guessed that?

You are the person that injected Pippen into the discussion Buggsy.  You did so because apparently you think Pippen was to Jordan what Wade is to James . . . but didn't Wade win a championship and wasn't he the actual MVP BEFORE James ever came along?  That is why I distinguished the two.

The point was that as good as Pippen was he was he developed into the player he was with Jordan and then they lost without Jordan, with Pippen playing an interesting role in the loss, I might add.  Wade was a CHAMPION and MVP before they assembled the "dream team" Heat . . .oh wait . . . you dont think the term "dream team" is apt . . .  even though they had television shows about it . . . and apparently changed the CBA . . .

GameTime

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#172 : June 22, 2013, 01:54:59 PM

i dont think there is much point.  lebron is a great player.  jordan was a great player.  jordan was a little more clutch, had a more intense reputation and demeanor.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"

VinBucFan

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#173 : June 22, 2013, 01:56:12 PM

i dont think there is much point.  lebron is a great player.  jordan was a great player.  jordan was a little more clutch, had a more intense reputation and demeanor.

that ^^^^^was actually pretty much my first post today

No doubt James is very talented.  The difference between James and Jordan is that James may win a lot of championships but, if so, he will need to do so with some established players around him (Bosch, Wade etc).  Jordan turned players into established players, guys like BJ Armstrong, John Paxton etc., role players lifted by Jordan's play and personalityThat's not a knock on James because he is very good, he just has a different personality and approach.
: June 22, 2013, 01:58:02 PM VinBucFan

Biggs3535

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#174 : June 22, 2013, 02:13:04 PM

You are the person that injected Pippen into the discussion Buggsy.  You did so because apparently you think Pippen was to Jordan what Wade is to James . . . but didn't Wade win a championship and wasn't he the actual MVP BEFORE James ever came along?  That is why I distinguished the two.

Wade won his first championship playing with multiple HOF'ers in Shaquille O'Neal, Gary Payton, and maybe even Alonzo Mourning.



The point was that as good as Pippen was he was he developed into the player he was with Jordan and then they lost without Jordan, with Pippen playing an interesting role in the loss, I might add.  Wade was a CHAMPION and MVP before they assembled the "dream team" Heat . . .oh wait . . . you dont think the term "dream team" is apt . . .  even though they had television shows about it . . . and apparently changed the CBA . . .

Unsurprisingly, you're still missing the point.  Jordan never won a championship without another Hall Of Famer playing beside him.  Jordan played with great players when he won his championships, just like Wade and LeBron.  Quit acting like Jordan won multiple championships by himself.  He didn't.  Nobody did, including Magic, Bird, Duncan, Kobe, Shaq, etc.

Go ahead and have the last post.  I know you can't help yourself, being the schmuck that you are.


Biggs3535

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#175 : June 22, 2013, 02:14:46 PM

i dont think there is much point.

Well, you said "good point", and I naturally thought there might have been one.

I agree, there wasn't a point.


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#176 : June 22, 2013, 02:20:27 PM


The game of basketball has eroded to the point that its unwatchable for me.  I grew up in NY where you could catch just about every game in the NBA on TV and this was before cable.  Most games were either on NBC or ABC.  Basketball growing up was more popular in the city because we had a basketball hoop on almost every corner in the park.  Football and baseball was out of the question due to concrete and space.  There was a CLEAR distinction between street ball and professional basketball.  I remember growing up hearing coaches at school scholling us that you needed technique on the court and keep that street ball mess at the park.  The NBA is basically streetball on TV.  What is a foul, charge, walk, double dribble, etc... The game has become a mess.  I occasionally watch the game but it disgusts me to see what the sport has become.  Don't get me wrong I understand that there were problems in Jordans day but now there really isnt any grace to the sport.  I was awed as a youngster watching players play the game.  Now its hard to watch a full game.  I miss the old days of basket ball where it was a team sport and players played defense.  The mess on TV today is awful. 

VinBucFan

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#177 : June 22, 2013, 02:24:26 PM

You are the person that injected Pippen into the discussion Buggsy.  You did so because apparently you think Pippen was to Jordan what Wade is to James . . . but didn't Wade win a championship and wasn't he the actual MVP BEFORE James ever came along?  That is why I distinguished the two.

Wade won his first championship playing with multiple HOF'ers in Shaquille O'Neal, Gary Payton, and maybe even Alonzo Mourning.

so what? the discussion is about James, not Wade . . .

VinBucFan

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#178 : June 22, 2013, 02:29:46 PM

Jordan never won a championship without another Hall Of Famer playing beside him.  Jordan played with great players when he won his championships, just like Wade and LeBron.  Quit acting like Jordan won multiple championships by himself. 

^^^strawman, never said that.  lol.  I made a comment about Jordan 4th quarter play and said the incredibly uncontroversial statement that the Heat was an intentional assembly of ESTABLISHED players when James left Cleveland.  Jordan stayed in Chicago and won championships with many player, some of who DEVELOPED into great players. . . but it wasn't a "dream team."

Again, I am not knocking James. I am just saying the contrast between the teams highlights the difference between James and Jordan
: June 22, 2013, 02:31:36 PM VinBucFan

GameTime

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#179 : June 22, 2013, 02:41:38 PM

Well, you said "good point", and I naturally thought there might have been one.
I agree, there wasn't a point.
i meant that sarcastically.  was just trying to point out that the Bulls were pretty solid without jordan.

i think lbj gets too much hate for his on court play.  i just hate the guy because he is too good, so i root against him.  i did it with kobe in his prime, i do it with tiger when he's on.  i just like underdogs.

\"Lets put the O back in Country\"
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