Welcome, Guest
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  Pirate's Cove (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: just legalize it already « previous next »
Page: 1 ... 11 12 13 14

VinBucFan

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 19566
Offline
#180 : December 08, 2012, 06:59:50 PM

  If you put aside the alleged "medical" benefits, which only a few would need (if at all), what is the POSITIVE AFFIRMATIVE argument FOR legalizing pot?

If you put aside the alleged medical benefits of aspirin, what is the positive affirmative argument for legalizing it??


Marijuana = Aspirin?

Hmm, I am not a chemist so when I go to the drug store tomorrow I will check the Bayer bottle to see if aspirin contains THC. Maybe it does? Here's the "word" on THC:

"Long-term marijuana abuse can lead to addiction; that is, compulsive drug seeking and abuse despite the known harmful effects upon functioning in the context of family, school, work, and recreational activities. Estimates from research suggest that about 9 percent of users become addicted to marijuana; this number increases among those who start young (to about 17 percent) and among daily users (25-50 percent).
 
Long-term marijuana abusers trying to quit report withdrawal symptoms including: irritability, sleeplessness, decreased appetite, anxiety, and drug craving, all of which can make it difficult to remain abstinent. These symptoms begin within about 1 day following abstinence, peak at 2-3 days, and subside within 1 or 2 weeks following drug cessation"


I am not sure, what are the addiction rates for aspirin?

 :-[

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\'s Cancer Center

VinBucFan

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 19566
Offline
#181 : December 08, 2012, 07:17:38 PM

It is well recognized that the purpose of any statute, law, or ordinance, Federal, state or local should fall into one of 3 categories:

1. to generate revenue or allocate spending

2. to protect individuals or the citizenry as a whole from physical or financial harm or loss.

3. to regulate commerce so as to encourage free, open and safe markets.

So does keeping MJ illegal generate revenue- NO
Does it protect individuals or the citizenry from physical or financial harm- NO
Does keeping it illegal encourage free, safe and open commerce?---HELL NO

So there is no reason to keep an ineffectual law on the books and in fact, it is our duty as Americans to force the repeal of ineffectual and onerous laws.

In the America our Founding Fathers envisioned, it is not necessary to justify why something should be legal, but the burden of justification is on those that wish something banned to prove why it should be banned.

At the risk of stating the obvious, I think reasonable minds might disagree with the "NO" in red above, that is unless you completely discount evidence that THC leads to addiction. Other "pain killers" lead to addiction if abused but THAT IS WHY THEY ARE GENERALLY REGULATED.  If you look through the thread, you might notice that I asked why so many marijuana advocates claim, on the one hand, that it has a medicinal value, while on the other hand saying it should available OTC.  Respectfully, your comparison of marijuana to aspirin perfectly illustrates that leap I am talking about.

Also, there are substantial differences between changing the "war on drugs" and legalizing marijuana.  In fact, there are millions of miles between the two approaches. The flaws of the war on drugs (which deal with more than marijuana) can be improved/corrected without legalization.  For example, there are alternative to incarcerating people for minor marijuana crimes etc.  Many things that can be done short of letting my children buy THC.

So the founding fathers (the same ones that decided SLAVERY would be legal -- that's the ones you mean right?) did envision a  of minimal federal intrusion, but I am not sure that equals legal marijuana. In any event, since I am not one of the founding fathers (I am against slavery -lol) I just asked the question what is the benefit of the drug?  It is amazing how difficult that has been for so many to answer, with the best (or only) answer being MEDICINAL . .  yet those who say it has a medicinal benefit STILL want it to be OTC.  That seems like an obvious leap of logic to me, but maybe not to some .  .

(BTW, some who know me from my posts on site would probably know that I largely agree with your view of the government and constituion JG?  I just disagree with the link you make)

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\'s Cancer Center

VinBucFan

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 19566
Offline
#182 : December 08, 2012, 07:19:27 PM

you're right tripblood - JG?'s post is simply right

lol- "so let it be written, so let it be done"

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\'s Cancer Center

Biggs3535

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 31588
Offline
#183 : December 08, 2012, 08:13:27 PM

So how many more posters need to lay the smackdown on PeanutButterCheezeBoy in this thread before he shrivels away in humiliation?

Nevermind, that requires the poster in question to have shame.


Bayfisher

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 4630
Offline
#184 : December 08, 2012, 08:15:44 PM

Full circle and still with the "Reefer Madness" mentality. No one could have guessed that.   

Bucs_Rule

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 2698
Offline
#185 : December 08, 2012, 08:23:05 PM

  If you put aside the alleged "medical" benefits, which only a few would need (if at all), what is the POSITIVE AFFIRMATIVE argument FOR legalizing pot?

If you put aside the alleged medical benefits of aspirin, what is the positive affirmative argument for legalizing it??


Marijuana = Aspirin?

Hmm, I am not a chemist so when I go to the drug store tomorrow I will check the Bayer bottle to see if aspirin contains THC. Maybe it does? Here's the "word" on THC:

"Long-term marijuana abuse can lead to addiction; that is, compulsive drug seeking and abuse despite the known harmful effects upon functioning in the context of family, school, work, and recreational activities. Estimates from research suggest that about 9 percent of users become addicted to marijuana; this number increases among those who start young (to about 17 percent) and among daily users (25-50 percent).
 
Long-term marijuana abusers trying to quit report withdrawal symptoms including: irritability, sleeplessness, decreased appetite, anxiety, and drug craving, all of which can make it difficult to remain abstinent. These symptoms begin within about 1 day following abstinence, peak at 2-3 days, and subside within 1 or 2 weeks following drug cessation"


I am not sure, what are the addiction rates for aspirin?

 :-[

What a bunch of garbage. I have used MJ for years and I am not addicted what so ever. If I had a job interview and there was a drug test I could easily quit for a week or two with no negative effects what so ever. My father used MJ from the 70's all the way up until 1982 and has not touched dit since.

Btw is has been proven that MJ is not physically addicting. If someone is addicted to MJ then it is a psychological addiction which means that person would be addicted to alcohol, cigs, crack, etc. Since cigs and alcohol are far worse drugs than MJ are legal, there is no reason for MJ to be illegal.

VinBucFan

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 19566
Offline
#186 : December 08, 2012, 08:23:20 PM

Full circle and still with the "Reefer Madness" mentality. No one could have guessed that.

lol

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\'s Cancer Center

VinBucFan

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 19566
Offline
#187 : December 08, 2012, 08:25:48 PM

Since cigs and alcohol are far worse drugs than MJ are legal, there is no reason for MJ to be illegal.

 ???

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\'s Cancer Center

Dolorous Jason

******
Hall of Famer

Posts : 17108
Offline
#188 : December 08, 2012, 08:36:39 PM



Btw is has been proven that MJ is not physically addicting.

Apparently Tanard Jackson didn't get the memo ?  :P

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

VinBucFan

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 19566
Offline
#189 : December 08, 2012, 08:54:14 PM

Just to follow up on JG? comment about laws prohibiting marijuana use NOT serving the purpose of protecting citizens, even if we move past the obvious issue of, for example, driving under the influence etc. there is evidence of "harms" caused directly by marijuana:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-06-04/study-strengthens-marijuana-brain-damage-case/2459244

To be fair, there are counter arguments (i.e., that it cause little harm) but that is why I asked what the positive was for the drug.  It is know to have likely negatives and so if the lone positive is limited medicinal value then why in  the world would it be OTC?

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\'s Cancer Center

dbucfan

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 46194
Offline
#190 : December 08, 2012, 09:10:05 PM

Do we want a start a list of those things one can get OTC that cause brain damage - purportedly or in reality?  The habit forming physical dependence is still debated and has evidence on either side - unlike say - alcohol.  And as for brain damage - given its legality - I would suspect just about every adult has seen the impact of alcohol on someone in their life.... devastating doesn't cover it. 


\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

VinBucFan

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 19566
Offline
#191 : December 08, 2012, 09:18:28 PM

Do we want a start a list of those things one can get OTC that cause brain damage - purportedly or in reality?  The habit forming physical dependence is still debated and has evidence on either side - unlike say - alcohol.  And as for brain damage - given its legality - I would suspect just about every adult has seen the impact of alcohol on someone in their life.... devastating doesn't cover it.

Just take them one at a time:

"Do we want a start a list of those things one can get OTC that cause brain damage - purportedly or in reality?" -- I would hope most would agree that the existence of OTHER things that may cause brain damage is NOT a reason to add another?  Sort of a twist on "twp wrongs dont make a right"

"The habit forming physical dependence is still debated and has evidence on either side - unlike say - alcohol" - actually, I think most think it is a psychological dependence, but the link between addiction and pot is THC and I think the general consensus is that the level of THC has risen over the year in pot (say from pot in the 70s to now), not sure about that though . .

"And as for brain damage - given its legality - I would suspect just about every adult has seen the impact of alcohol on someone in their life.... devastating doesn't cover it."  -  STRONGLY AGREE, but the devastation caused by alcohol is NOT an argument for making pot legal.  See prior twist on two wrongs dont make a right. In fact, it is an argument for keeping pot illegal.

The "yeah, well other things that are legal also cause harm" argument seems to be popular with those who support legalization.  I don't get that, frankly.
: December 08, 2012, 09:26:01 PM VinBucFan

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\'s Cancer Center

Biggs3535

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 31588
Offline
#192 : December 08, 2012, 09:27:30 PM

I am not trying to be argumentative.

This post was on page 3.  We are now on page 13.

PeanutButterCheeseBoy, ladies and gentlemen.


VinBucFan

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 19566
Offline
#193 : December 08, 2012, 09:47:11 PM

I am not trying to be argumentative.

This post was on page 3.  We are now on page 13.

PeanutButterCheeseBoy, ladies and gentlemen.

Buggsy, I know you dislike my anonymous character, but your dislike gets you in trouble because it leads you to post stupidity like the EDITED quote above.  Here's the WHOLE quote:

what are the negatives to legalizing marijuana?  how does alcohol benefit the society as a whole?  how does the lottery?  how does fast food?

I am not trying to be argumentative. It's an interesting topic, but that response^^^ illustrates my point really.  The best (or maybe the most common) argument for legalizing marijuana is "ok yeah, well look at all the other bad stuff that is legal."  That is an awful argument  (GT-- I dont mean an awful argument by you so no offense, I just mean that its not very compelling when people make that argument because that is not a reason to do it)

Buggsy, because you probably don't grasp the reason I put the whole quote up, note that you EDITED out the next sentence, which began "it's an interesting topic."  I have participated in the thread because it is an interesting topic.  Second, you probably don't even recognize the irony that when my entire page 3 comment is posted it UNDERSCORES the very point I was making on this page, which is that the "ok yeah, well look at all the other bad stuff that is legal" argument is common, but not very compelling. I used almost those exact words in responding to a DIFFERENT poster making that very argument . . .  lo these many pages later. Thanks for helping me prove my point!  Finally, you might be struggling with the word "argumentative," which generally speaking (and as specifically intended by me) means to argue IN A HEATED FASHION and to ask a question for which you don't really want an answer, but I did want an answer and I was repeating a point, so I wanted to make it clear that I was NOT being "argumentative."  I know . . . I know . .  it's an adult word.

 ???
: December 08, 2012, 09:49:22 PM VinBucFan

Show the bravest of the brave kids that you have their back.  Go to http://www.childrenscancercenter.org/

Just check out the site or maybe like them on Facebook . .  or Share the site on Facebook, re-tweet one of their tweets.  Not everyone can give money to support this great cause, but its easy to give 10 seconds of your time to help spread the word about The Children\'s Cancer Center

Biggs3535

*
Hall of Famer
******
Posts : 31588
Offline
#194 : December 08, 2012, 09:56:16 PM

it leads you to post stupidity


Run from your stupidity

couple posters get banned, but you're still here on the Red Board calling people stupid . . .


#PatheticHypocrite

Page: 1 ... 11 12 13 14
Pewter Report  >>  Boards  >>  Pirate's Cove (Moderators: 3rd String Kicker, PRPatrol)  >>  Topic: just legalize it already « previous next »
:

Hide Tools Show Tools