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CBWx2

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#30 : November 17, 2012, 12:33:01 PM

How about I just ignore you altogether.


chace1986

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#31 : November 17, 2012, 12:34:39 PM

LOL.


Hell, brees might not be as accurate as manziel.

CBWx2

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#32 : November 17, 2012, 12:37:54 PM

Hey, I am thinking if Christy was in the White House - problem solved...
Yeah no way in **CENSORED** is that guy ever winning. Could you imagine the outcry, a near morbidly obese guy leading a country that is trying to fight obesity.
I think I read or saw where is trying to get his weight down... he has a couple of years - and if he did he would be the role model.... I don't think he is particularly rich - don't think the plutocracy of CBW's republican party would permit him to be both a health role model and less than incredibly rich...

Ah, I see. You've moved on from wanting to engage in grown up conversations and graduated to wanting to enagage in nothing more than VinPB&J style pot shots. Congrats sir, you are now someone I no longer take seriously.


irony . . .  drip . . . drip . . .  drip . . . .drip

Actually, the only person on the MB that I routinely pot shot is you Vinny Peanuts, and that's because I stopped taking you seriously a long time ago.


dbucfan

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#33 : November 17, 2012, 12:39:40 PM

How about I just ignore you altogether.
I'm good with that.  Your choice. 

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

VinBucFan

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#34 : November 17, 2012, 12:51:30 PM

Hey, I am thinking if Christy was in the White House - problem solved...
Yeah no way in **CENSORED** is that guy ever winning. Could you imagine the outcry, a near morbidly obese guy leading a country that is trying to fight obesity.
I think I read or saw where is trying to get his weight down... he has a couple of years - and if he did he would be the role model.... I don't think he is particularly rich - don't think the plutocracy of CBW's republican party would permit him to be both a health role model and less than incredibly rich...

Ah, I see. You've moved on from wanting to engage in grown up conversations and graduated to wanting to enagage in nothing more than VinPB&J style pot shots. Congrats sir, you are now someone I no longer take seriously.


irony . . .  drip . . . drip . . .  drip . . . .drip

Actually, the only person on the MB that I routinely pot shot is you Vinny Peanuts, and that's because I stopped taking you seriously a long time ago.

that hurts  ....  ::)

anyway, when was the Trayvon Martin shooting? That kinda sticks out as a milestone for me.

spartan

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#35 : November 17, 2012, 01:52:59 PM

The first time Hostess filed for bankruptcy back in 2004, the workers agreed to a pay cut to keep the doors open. How dare they refuse to take yet another pay cut to save a business that has had to file for bankruptcy twice in a decade. I'd bet if they chose to all work for minimum wage, that would have kept Hostess running for at least another decade until they had to file for bankruptcy again. Damn greedy workers.

Having less pay beats the crap out of having no pay.

Even if you are correct about mismanagement, so what? It doesn't alter the fact that Hostess were in bankruptcy and did not have enough money to stay open. It is not a case of the workers being greedy but incredibly stupid. Any smart person would have taken the pay cut once it was obvious there was no alternative, then used the bought time to seek employment elsewhere. If I don't physically have the money, what good is it if you insist that I pay you your entire salary?

Skull and Bones

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#36 : November 17, 2012, 02:01:57 PM

The first time Hostess filed for bankruptcy back in 2004, the workers agreed to a pay cut to keep the doors open. How dare they refuse to take yet another pay cut to save a business that has had to file for bankruptcy twice in a decade. I'd bet if they chose to all work for minimum wage, that would have kept Hostess running for at least another decade until they had to file for bankruptcy again. Damn greedy workers.

go start your own companies and try to pay those pensions to your employees.   See how that works out for you.

Pensions need to be abolished in every company and replaced with 401k's.
Uh, most pensions don't pay you nearly enough to stay afloat. Which is why most companies offer both. Put into 401k while you work there and that money evens out with the pensions till your SS kicks in.
I work in a similar industry.  My company has both a pension and 401k but the pension is pretty weak.  I know some guys that worked for Hostess and their pensions were going to pay them like $3000 plus a month.  Not a bad retirement at all.


VinBucFan

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#37 : November 17, 2012, 02:02:26 PM

The first time Hostess filed for bankruptcy back in 2004, the workers agreed to a pay cut to keep the doors open. How dare they refuse to take yet another pay cut to save a business that has had to file for bankruptcy twice in a decade. I'd bet if they chose to all work for minimum wage, that would have kept Hostess running for at least another decade until they had to file for bankruptcy again. Damn greedy workers.

Having less pay beats the crap out of having no pay.

Even if you are correct about mismanagement, so what? It doesn't alter the fact that Hostess were in bankruptcy and did not have enough money to stay open. It is not a case of the workers being greedy but incredibly stupid. Any smart person would have taken the pay cut once it was obvious there was no alternative, then used the bought time to seek employment elsewhere. If I don't physically have the money, what good is it if you insist that I pay you your entire salary?

logical, simple, obvious . . . I think most people understand and agree with the point you make well Spartan.  That's what makes the whole event sad, but the defense from union-types . . well, laughable..  Actually, I am not sure if it is funny or sad that union types look at this event  and offer an almost child-like retort: "its them!!".  Maybe union supporters are aware of the stupidity and so have no response other than "it's them".  I am leaning toward "sad." A JOB is better than NO JOB . .

Bucman

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#38 : November 17, 2012, 02:06:46 PM

The first time Hostess filed for bankruptcy back in 2004, the workers agreed to a pay cut to keep the doors open. How dare they refuse to take yet another pay cut to save a business that has had to file for bankruptcy twice in a decade. I'd bet if they chose to all work for minimum wage, that would have kept Hostess running for at least another decade until they had to file for bankruptcy again. Damn greedy workers.

go start your own companies and try to pay those pensions to your employees.   See how that works out for you.

Pensions need to be abolished in every company and replaced with 401k's.
Uh, most pensions don't pay you nearly enough to stay afloat. Which is why most companies offer both. Put into 401k while you work there and that money evens out with the pensions till your SS kicks in.
I work in a similar industry.  My company has both a pension and 401k but the pension is pretty weak.  I know some guys that worked for Hostess and their pensions were going to pay them like $3000 plus a month.  Not a bad retirement at all.
Pretty sure we work/worked for the same company and yes the pensions is awful. But I plan to have at least 6 figures of 401k before I retire at 55.


Skull and Bones

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#39 : November 17, 2012, 02:28:13 PM

Union leader blames Romney for Hostess failure.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83979.html


CBWx2

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#40 : November 17, 2012, 02:30:37 PM

The first time Hostess filed for bankruptcy back in 2004, the workers agreed to a pay cut to keep the doors open. How dare they refuse to take yet another pay cut to save a business that has had to file for bankruptcy twice in a decade. I'd bet if they chose to all work for minimum wage, that would have kept Hostess running for at least another decade until they had to file for bankruptcy again. Damn greedy workers.

Having less pay beats the crap out of having no pay.

Even if you are correct about mismanagement, so what? It doesn't alter the fact that Hostess were in bankruptcy and did not have enough money to stay open. It is not a case of the workers being greedy but incredibly stupid. Any smart person would have taken the pay cut once it was obvious there was no alternative, then used the bought time to seek employment elsewhere. If I don't physically have the money, what good is it if you insist that I pay you your entire salary?

Point well taken. No doubt, this very thing was what divided the unions in this case. The Teamsters apparently agreed to the concessions, but the Bakers Union refused to make concessions. You can say it was a bad decision, but to blame the unions for the doors closing is ridiculous. The decision makers who were running that company let down it's employees by not making the right decisions to make the company solvent for the long haul.  Hostess is not the only unionized snack-cake maker. They are just the only one who filed for bankruptcy twice in 7 years.


VinBucFan

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#41 : November 17, 2012, 02:37:04 PM

The decision makers who were running that company let down it's employees by not making the right decisions to make the company solvent for the long haul.

"It's them"

CBWx2

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#42 : November 17, 2012, 02:39:36 PM

The decision makers who were running that company let down it's employees by not making the right decisions to make the company solvent for the long haul.

"It's them"

Isn't that kind of what you're doing by blaming the workers, hypocrite? Since neither of us work for the company, we are both blaming a "them", it just so happens to be a different "them", smart one.


Skull and Bones

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#43 : November 17, 2012, 02:43:43 PM

CBW you should read this:  http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/01/11/hostess-files-for-bankruptcy/


To say the labor unions were the primary fault of the company's demise is asinine.


dbucfan

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#44 : November 17, 2012, 02:44:32 PM

Union leader blames Romney for Hostess failure.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83979.html
Trumka - this Trumka http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/labor-progressives-bullish-talks-obama-221029022--politics.html



\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant
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