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#45 : November 21, 2012, 10:49:31 PM

Anybody would favor most any team over the garbage Gruden left when he was fired. Right now you can thank Raheem for picking a franchise QB with his first selection in his first draft. Gruden couldn't do it in seven years. At least Raheem left Schiano some talent to work with. Watching the Bucs spiral downward with other team's rejects year after year with Gruden was my nightmare and any other fan of the team. The man was fired because of it. He was going nowhere and the Glazers knew it. Raheem was a piss poor DC and sucked as a leader, but at least he had the balls to get rid of the deadwood and start from scratch. Gruden probably would have won five or six games in '09, but no way in hell would he have won ten in'10. He would have sucked last year as well. Mediocre at best and mediocre is what got him fired in the first place.

Bottom line: we had to get rid of Gruden to accumulate some young talented players, and we had to get rid of Raheem to upgrade the coaching staff. It's Schiano's team leading the NFC in offense and breaking franchise records. That's something none of teams did under Gruden, and Schiano is just getting started, mainly with a roster built under Raheem's tenure. Gruden built nothing. He was a great OC for the Bucs for one season. That's it.


Preach!!!

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#46 : November 21, 2012, 10:54:30 PM

Yeah cos 2005 never happened. We really didn't win 11 games, really didn't win classics vs. Atlanta (twice) and that first Washington game. Keep talking, sparky. The usual garbage. Yeah Gruden stunk at the end and should have been fired. But Java overstates Gruden's excellence and you overstate his inadequacies. It was up and down and the glory of Schiano is that IMHO it won't be that way. McKay? Down, up and then way down. After him lots of down. Dungy? Up, then gradually going down. Gruden? Way up, down, way down, up, down, etc. Raheem? Way down, up, way down.
Let's have four or five 11-win years in a row, eh? Let's do what the Ravens, Steelers, Packers do routinely. Then we can stop this nonsense.

In Verner We Trust

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#47 : November 21, 2012, 11:00:10 PM

Josh was a Great Pick......Perhaps Raheem should have been a Scout......
He was an Awful Coach

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#48 : November 21, 2012, 11:02:51 PM

Raheem was actually a great DB coach here, so to say he was an awful coach is just wrong.


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#49 : November 21, 2012, 11:04:27 PM

Raheem was actually a great DB coach here, so to say he was an awful coach is just wrong.

Ok.....He was an Awful Head Coach

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#50 : November 21, 2012, 11:24:13 PM

This thread went away from the topic quickly lol

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#51 : November 21, 2012, 11:43:43 PM

Yeah cos 2005 never happened. We really didn't win 11 games, really didn't win classics vs. Atlanta (twice) and that first Washington game. Keep talking, sparky. The usual garbage. Yeah Gruden stunk at the end and should have been fired. But Java overstates Gruden's excellence and you overstate his inadequacies. It was up and down and the glory of Schiano is that IMHO it won't be that way. McKay? Down, up and then way down. After him lots of down. Dungy? Up, then gradually going down. Gruden? Way up, down, way down, up, down, etc. Raheem? Way down, up, way down.
Let's have four or five 11-win years in a row, eh? Let's do what the Ravens, Steelers, Packers do routinely. Then we can stop this nonsense.

I would have been happy with a steady, even gradual, improvement over a period of years with an eye on the future. Instead we were shooting for the moon with every castoff and reject that wandered into the gulf coast. There was no plan to build anything. There was no culture of any kind. The players couldn't trust a word the man said. There was no sense of purpose. The players couldn't bond together against anything except the HC. There was no sense of loyalty and there was very little teaching going on.
There was nobody sad to see Gruden fired.

The Bucs would never have won a SB with Dungy, and Dungy never would have won a SB without Payton Manning, but Dungy would have kept the Bucs competitive year after year with Gruden as his OC. The players trusted him. There was always a sense of loyalty to Dungy. He was a leader. Gruden was no leader. He drove the team from behind with a bullwhip. Gruden was fired from his last job. Dungy retired. Most people of reasonable intelligence can tell the difference.

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#52 : November 21, 2012, 11:51:17 PM

Dungy was fired from the Bucs.  So was Gruden.   They are both analysts now.   What's the difference again?


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#53 : November 22, 2012, 01:07:21 AM

Dungy was fired from the Bucs.  So was Gruden.   They are both analysts now.   What's the difference again?
Dungy was hired by another team and won a SB, then retired. Both coaches could get jobs if they wanted them. No need to denigrate either.

Time to live in the present.

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#54 : November 22, 2012, 01:25:44 AM

Dungy inherited one of the best QBs of all time, in his prime, coming off a fluke bad season. Build? What did he build in Indy? One Super Bowl with a guy that should have won five is not building. And to say Dungy would have kept u competitive is optimistic at best. We had stagnated when he left. He fell into a perfect situation in Indy and you haters have been spinning him up ever since.

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#55 : November 22, 2012, 01:39:52 AM

Dungy inherited one of the best QBs of all time, in his prime, coming off a fluke bad season. Build? What did he build in Indy? One Super Bowl with a guy that should have won five is not building. And to say Dungy would have kept u competitive is optimistic at best. We had stagnated when he left. He fell into a perfect situation in Indy and you haters have been spinning him up ever since.

What was so ironic was in 2001, Dungy was asked if he could have one player in the league, who would it be?   He said Peyton Manning.    At the end of that season, he was fired and hired by Manning's team.   What a lucky bastard.


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#56 : November 22, 2012, 01:45:20 AM

League setup? Hmmm.

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#57 : November 22, 2012, 07:10:29 AM

I see no reason for the bucs to announce a sell out prior to the deadline. The Bucs want to sell as many tickets as possible. Even if they have already met the amount needed to sell out the game they will not announce until they have to

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#58 : November 22, 2012, 07:53:52 AM

I am all for continuity and committment....to the fans and the team. Install an offensive & defensive scheme and stick with it and draft the players to fit the scheme. That will build a decade long competetive team, not the three and out that we have been going through. I think that Schiano & Dominick are on their way to stabilizing the Bucs and I believe the Glazers have given both a long rope. I am impressed so far.

                \'Every day above ground is a good day\'

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#59 : November 22, 2012, 08:13:01 AM

Dungy inherited one of the best QBs of all time, in his prime, coming off a fluke bad season. Build? What did he build in Indy? One Super Bowl with a guy that should have won five is not building. And to say Dungy would have kept u competitive is optimistic at best. We had stagnated when he left. He fell into a perfect situation in Indy and you haters have been spinning him up ever since.

What was so ironic was in 2001, Dungy was asked if he could have one player in the league, who would it be?   He said Peyton Manning.    At the end of that season, he was fired and hired by Manning's team.   What a lucky bastard.

Dungy at least contributed to the Colts by fielding an improved defense and providing great leadership. He didn't lie to his players. He maintained team unity and insured that the team was competitive EVERY year, not just every two or three years. Tony Dungy was loved and respected at every stop on his career. Gruden was not. Gruden had two HC jobs in the NFL, and was fired from both. The spotlight should be on the team. With him, it never was. He's found his true calling and he should stay there. I credit him with pushing the Bucs over the hump. I have said repeatedly the Bucs would not have won one without him, but they also would never have won another one. In fact, the next 7 years were wasted because of him. I say 7 because he was much more responsible for the record in 2009 than Raheem was because of the shambles Gruden had created and left. Vince Lombardi could not have won with that team.

Gruden took over a team that had HOF talent. A great HC, hell even a good HC would have added a few pieces and built on that. At the very least maintaining some consistency. He lacked the teaching and leadership skills to do that. He tried to win with players who had been taught elsewhere but were long past their prime. I can only guess George Allen was his hero growing up. It's real simple. I appreciate the Lombardi. I don't appreciate the team being dismantled.

For the record, Gruden has been fired twice as a HC. Dungy was fired once and snatched up immediately by the Colts. He could unretire and have his choice of jobs around the league.
If a team wants a mediocre OC, Gruden's their man. If they want a decent HC, they need to look elsewhere.

The only offensive genius living in Tampa is Sully. The evidence so far suggests Schiano will likely retire sometime in the distant future. He has already proven himself as a leader and a teacher. For sure the respect and trust is there. He's ahead of the game and building for the future. Now would be the time to buy stock in sunglasses. Gruden's prediction was only off by a decade.
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