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Axxon

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#180 : December 07, 2012, 12:20:31 AM

I have zero hatred for Freeman. I hope for his success. I just don't ignore his shortcomings. I also have my doubts about whether we will make it to the playoffs, or much less a SB.

I don't give a f*ck about titles like TRUE franchise QB, or any regular season stats. I want this team to be back in the post season. I would like another SB title.
so if freeman can't get us to the post season, what available qb will ?

Johnny Football in 2 years?

Kidding, but the point is that hypothetically, the Bucs have 2 years to extend him.  He can't go anywhere if we don't want him to until the 2015 season.  Why rush?




Assuming he continues to progress..........the price would increase proportionately.

To the point that we could no longer resign our other key players and our team would suffer.

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#181 : December 07, 2012, 12:25:45 AM

Do you really think he's turning from a 10 mil a year player to a 16+ mil a year player?  I mean, even if he plays well at the end of this season, and beginning of next season, he's increasing his value by 2-3 million at the very most.  He's not suddenly becoming one of the top 5 paid QBs in the NFL.

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#182 : December 07, 2012, 12:26:00 AM

I don't think anyone here is saying let's find someone else this second.  At least I'm not.  I'm saying given the choice between giving him an extension this week, or waiting a while, I wait.  I want him to prove his consistency against the middle-of-the-pack teams before revolving the franchise's next decade (and yes, it's decade, because the ramifications of hitching your wagon to a QB lasts that long) around him.

Is four games going to be enough to convince you? That's realistically all we have unless we're willing to franchise the guy and throw a metric ton of money that I don't think he deserves. The facts are, he's in the top dozen QB's in the league and if he hits free agency we will not get him back. There are teams who realize the importance of the QB position and don't feel they have the luxury of waiting until one falls into their lap.

What?  He has one more year on his contract BEFORE we have to franchise him.  We could extend him in November next year.  If we want him, he's not hitting free agency.

The fact is, we're one of the worst places a franchise qb would want to play. Cheap owners, non existant fan support, no media coverage, where do I sign? He could go to a team like the Jets for example and make more money even if he got lesser salary. We are not the team that franchise guys dream of playing on. We're just not.

If we don't get him now or during the offseason, there's no way I'd sign an extension during next seasons and I'd make them franchise me even if I was going to resign because the payday is higher as a franchise and it leaves me with options. After that, I'd look around. There's no way the Glazers enter a bidding war of that magnitude. Have they ever?
: December 07, 2012, 12:30:19 AM Axxon

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#183 : December 07, 2012, 12:28:32 AM

Do you really think he's turning from a 10 mil a year player to a 16+ mil a year player?  I mean, even if he plays well at the end of this season, and beginning of next season, he's increasing his value by 2-3 million at the very most.  He's not suddenly becoming one of the top 5 paid QBs in the NFL.

 He automatically does if he's franchised you know and yes, I can see a team that needs a QB, unlike us apparently, would pay him that. QB's do not grow on trees. You'd think Bucs fans of all people would understand that.

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#184 : December 07, 2012, 12:29:48 AM

You think that if the Bucs offered him a fair contract next year, he's going to say no, let them franchise, knowing he could either have a bad year or get injured, and walk away with nothing?  That doesn't happen in the NFL.  There's a reason that QBs usually sign their contracts if their franchised, and it's because there's too much risk in football.  Is it completely impossible that Freeman gets stubborn and refuses to sign an extension if we don't extend him this second?  Sure, it's possible.  Is it likely?  Based on the history of the NFL, no it's not likely.

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#185 : December 07, 2012, 12:34:03 AM

You think that if the Bucs offered him a fair contract next year, he's going to say no, let them franchise, knowing he could either have a bad year or get injured, and walk away with nothing?  That doesn't happen in the NFL.  There's a reason that QBs usually sign their contracts if their franchised, and it's because there's too much risk in football.  Is it completely impossible that Freeman gets stubborn and refuses to sign an extension if we don't extend him this second?  Sure, it's possible.  Is it likely?  Based on the history of the NFL, no it's not likely.

I said that if they try and resign him during the season next season I'd refuse. By that point he's playing well. My point is that we only have 4 games to evaluate him. We could extend him during the off season and he'd take the deal but once he's midway into an "extendable season" I don't see him not testing the free agent market. Are we really going to learn so much in 4 games?

Axxon

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#186 : December 07, 2012, 12:36:48 AM

I have zero hatred for Freeman. I hope for his success. I just don't ignore his shortcomings. I also have my doubts about whether we will make it to the playoffs, or much less a SB.

I don't give a f*ck about titles like TRUE franchise QB, or any regular season stats. I want this team to be back in the post season. I would like another SB title.
so if freeman can't get us to the post season, what available qb will ?

Johnny Football in 2 years?

Kidding, but the point is that hypothetically, the Bucs have 2 years to extend him.  He can't go anywhere if we don't want him to until the 2015 season.  Why rush?




Assuming he continues to progress..........the price would increase proportionately.
But if he he turns out to be a great QB does it really matter what the price is?

Sure doesn't. I mean, a franchise qb could win the SB with 52 unsigned free agents. We all know that.

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#187 : December 07, 2012, 12:38:33 AM

I think the danger of waiting another year is you take the chance of creatiing bad blood between the team, and #5 and his dad.

If this was baseball, I'd agree with you.  But this bad blood hasn't happened in football when it comes to QB.  A QB hasn't just left when a team wants him in recent memory.

Jake Plummer.

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#188 : December 07, 2012, 12:38:39 AM

I'm confused, why would you refuse?  Let's say he has a good 4 games, and has a good first 6 games next year, and then we have a bye week week 7.  We come to him during the bye week and we say we want to give him a decent contract, fair market value, something along the lines of 4/44 or 5/55.  Obviously there would be negotiations, but why does he turn that down?  Does he risk having to play his next 26 games (10 more games in 2013 and 16 games in 2014) without a long term deal signed?

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#189 : December 07, 2012, 12:39:54 AM

I think the danger of waiting another year is you take the chance of creatiing bad blood between the team, and #5 and his dad.

If this was baseball, I'd agree with you.  But this bad blood hasn't happened in football when it comes to QB.  A QB hasn't just left when a team wants him in recent memory.

Jake Plummer.

I'm really REALLY hoping you're not referring to the Plummer on the Bucs situation, which in no way, shape or form has anything to do with what we're talking about.

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#190 : December 07, 2012, 12:47:32 AM

I'm confused, why would you refuse?  Let's say he has a good 4 games, and has a good first 6 games next year, and then we have a bye week week 7.  We come to him during the bye week and we say we want to give him a decent contract, fair market value, something along the lines of 4/44 or 5/55.  Obviously there would be negotiations, but why does he turn that down?  Does he risk having to play his next 26 games (10 more games in 2013 and 16 games in 2014) without a long term deal signed?

Unless we're offering him higher than the tag value he'd make more money going that route. His value would be rising by the minute, in the most prized and hardest to find position in football. His only risk is injury and he can get insurance to cover that just like Leinart and unless the injury is career threatening ( any injuries like this to franchise qb's lately under the "protect the QB" rules? ) he'd still be good. 


Axxon

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#191 : December 07, 2012, 12:49:31 AM

I think the danger of waiting another year is you take the chance of creatiing bad blood between the team, and #5 and his dad.

If this was baseball, I'd agree with you.  But this bad blood hasn't happened in football when it comes to QB.  A QB hasn't just left when a team wants him in recent memory.

Jake Plummer.

I'm really REALLY hoping you're not referring to the Plummer on the Bucs situation, which in no way, shape or form has anything to do with what we're talking about.

The question was " A QB hasn't just left when a team wants him in recent memory." The answer is Jake Plummer.

You made no other provision in the question. If you want to further qualify your question that's on you but I factually answered the one you asked.

Plus,it happened to us. If we can't keep a washed up has been that we want what chanced do we have with a rising star in the league.
: December 07, 2012, 12:52:06 AM Axxon

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#192 : December 07, 2012, 12:51:19 AM

I think you have a skewed perception of the financial reality of the NFL.  Would he really give up financial stability for an extra 4-5 million in one year?  Or less than that if we offer him a Sanchez-like contract?  What if he has a bad season?  What if he does get a torn ACL?  Or multiple concussions?  All of a sudden he's lost much more than 5 million.  Insurance doesn't allow you to collect 50 million if your hurt.

And now you're just getting dumb by bringing Plummer into this.  I said bad blood hasn't caused any starting QB that a team wanted not to sign a contract and go to free agency instead.  So please, stop being dumb.  You're making yourself look foolish.

Axxon

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#193 : December 07, 2012, 12:58:12 AM

I think you have a skewed perception of the financial reality of the NFL.  Would he really give up financial stability for an extra 4-5 million in one year?  Or less than that if we offer him a Sanchez-like contract?  What if he has a bad season?  What if he does get a torn ACL?  Or multiple concussions?  All of a sudden he's lost much more than 5 million.  Insurance doesn't allow you to collect 50 million if your hurt.

And now you're just getting dumb by bringing Plummer into this.  I said bad blood hasn't caused any starting QB that a team wanted not to sign a contract and go to free agency instead.  So please, stop being dumb.  You're making yourself look foolish.

The fact the Jets offered Sanchez a Sanchez like contract is proof that Free could get paid if he left us. Plus, in NY he'd make more money in endorsements and such. He'd be even more of a media darling. He'd be set up. In Tampa he could look forward to cheap owners,  empty stadiums and minimal national publicity. Is it worth saddling yourself with this situation for 5 more years just in case you had a career ending injury. Again, how often does that happen to franchise QB's these days?

As for your second point,  if you'd just ask the question you wanted answered this wouldn't have happened. I answered what you asked not what you wanted to ask and I'm the foolish one. Got it.
: December 07, 2012, 01:00:01 AM Axxon

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#194 : December 07, 2012, 01:05:24 AM

Good discussion guys.

I would just add this......Its a QB's dream to make it to free agency, especially one with some skills.


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