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chace1986

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#915 : December 13, 2012, 10:02:12 AM

like i said, 10-12.....and maybe more if you take 'potential' into account.

I agree. If he has a decent year next season, he will ask for more that what his final year is on his contract, which maxes out at  $9.76 mil.

There is no reason financially to resign him early. The risk that we might be signing just an average QB, outweighs the risk that he would get his feelings hurt.

"feeeeeelings, whoa whoa whoa, feeeeelings........"

Screw that....can't lets feelings get in the way of doing business!! Hell, the Saints tagged Brees.

Dammit...still have that song stuck in my head from reading this last night. Thanks.


QaZ

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#916 : December 13, 2012, 10:09:27 AM


Let me ask you this, what makes you think that after this year Freeman will sign a team friendly long term contract?

The biggest issue for me on this whole topic is that some people think that Freeman will sign whatever Dominik puts in front of him.  Some of you people are scared that he might walk if Dominik waits to franchise him... yet you aren't scared that Freeman might walk if you 'insult' him with a weak contract offer.  This is baffling to me.

When did i say Freeman will sign a what ever is put infront of him? All i know he WONT sign aynthing if no offer is made. I even said we should let him walk if he demands top5 money, since i said i have my doubts about him being top5 anytime soon.
If we refuses to stay in TB, then we atleast know about, then we can think about a trade this off season.

What baffles me are the doubters that think Freeman will never be elite, but still want to decide about after next year, when our only option to keep him here is a franchise tag then, just a non top5 QB might not be worth it, overpaying him big time, while letting him walk gives us no draft picks and not even a mediocre QB like Freeman. Why should any team give us two 1st rounders for a mediocre Freeman, we might not want aka making him a FA soon?

Waiting just works if Freeman turns out to be great. Extending him just hurts if he really sucks, just i think he is TOO good for, maybe not great though.

QaZ

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#917 : December 13, 2012, 10:33:09 AM


Those 2 QB's played against 2 teams with defenses ranked in the bottom 10 in points and yards

wrong, last year NEs defense was even above average.  Against the run both teams were far away from bottom 10.

both defense would have been better what Freeman had to play with, maybe his whole career.

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#918 : December 13, 2012, 10:36:39 AM

If you dont sign Freeman to a long term deal now then he will be another quarterback to leave the bucs and get a superbowl. Then you all would be **CENSORED**ing about never having a franchise QB.

Chief Joseph

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#919 : December 13, 2012, 10:43:41 AM

If you dont sign Freeman to a long term deal now then he will be another quarterback to leave the bucs and get a superbowl. Then you all would be **CENSORED**ing about never having a franchise QB.

So, we either sign him or he wins a Super Bowl somewhere else. Are those the only two possibilities?

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

TBayXXXVII

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#920 : December 13, 2012, 10:45:11 AM


Let me ask you this, what makes you think that after this year Freeman will sign a team friendly long term contract?

The biggest issue for me on this whole topic is that some people think that Freeman will sign whatever Dominik puts in front of him.  Some of you people are scared that he might walk if Dominik waits to franchise him... yet you aren't scared that Freeman might walk if you 'insult' him with a weak contract offer.  This is baffling to me.

When did i say Freeman will sign a what ever is put infront of him? All i know he WONT sign aynthing if no offer is made. I even said we should let him walk if he demands top5 money, since i said i have my doubts about him being top5 anytime soon.
If we refuses to stay in TB, then we atleast know about, then we can think about a trade this off season.

What baffles me are the doubters that think Freeman will never be elite, but still want to decide about after next year, when our only option to keep him here is a franchise tag then, just a non top5 QB might not be worth it, overpaying him big time, while letting him walk gives us no draft picks and not even a mediocre QB like Freeman. Why should any team give us two 1st rounders for a mediocre Freeman, we might not want aka making him a FA soon?

Waiting just works if Freeman turns out to be great. Extending him just hurts if he really sucks, just i think he is TOO good for, maybe not great though.

Here's the thing... he's not worth top 10 money either.  Not really worth much more than middle of the road.  THAT'S why you wait to re-sign him.  Right now, the only reasonable kind of contract extension you can offer Freeman is basically 2 more years on to his current deal.  I say that because he really hasn't outperformed his current contract.  So, instead of him being a free agent after 2013... he'd be one after 2015.  I ask you, would Freeman sign that deal?  Most likely... no.  If you offer anything more than that, it'll have to be a team protected deal... which Freeman won't sign either.  The one thing that Freeman has going for him is Dominik.  The man is a TERRIBLE GM, one of the worst in the league, if not THE worst.  There is a realistic chance that Dominik locks Freeman in for a 7 year / $115M deal, ruining this team for the next 7 years.

So...
Waiting works for Freeman if he ends up great. - I doubt he'll ever be that.
Extending hurts if he stinks. - which both of us doubt.

What works best if he's average?

QaZ

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#921 : December 13, 2012, 11:02:36 AM

What works best if he's average?

exactly what i'm talking about. Now is the best CHANCE to lock him up for a reasonable prize, to pay him what he is worth.(incase of him being average) Next year he can use the franchise tag against us, which would get him 18+, why should he THEN accept a low ball, an average deal? Testing the FA market THEN gives him more than he is worth, and thats what he wants, to get the most out of his abilities. Teams overpay for average talent, , esepcially with franchised tags or on the open market, great talent gets big contracts anyway. As a mediocre QB he has way more reason to test the market than if elite, proven to be elite.
Is him being average hurting us so much? I would say a guy worse than him hurts us way more, for the exact reasons you are bringing up, a QB is the most important position of a team. Sucking here can not even be outplayed by a great defense, something we are far way from.
An average Freeman still allows a great defense carry him. An average Freeman still allows us to find an upgrade at QB elsewhere. At worst we take a cap hit for ONE year, but then we KNOW why are doing it.

I do not say sign him at all cost, but not even trying to get a deal done is a horrible idea.

Chief Joseph

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#922 : December 13, 2012, 11:04:44 AM


 " An average Freeman still allows a great defense carry him."

Seen one of those around here?


Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

TBayXXXVII

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#923 : December 13, 2012, 11:13:19 AM

What works best if he's average?

exactly what i'm talking about. Now is the best CHANCE to lock him up for a reasonable prize, to pay him what he is worth.(incase of him being average) Next year he can use the franchise tag against us, which would get him 18+, why should he THEN accept a low ball, an average deal? Testing the FA market THEN gives him more than he is worth, and thats what he wants, to get the most out of his abilities. Teams overpay for average talent, , esepcially with franchised tags or on the open market, great talent gets big contracts anyway. As a mediocre QB he has way more reason to test the market than if elite, proven to be elite.
Is him being average hurting us so much? I would say a guy worse than him hurts us way more, for the exact reasons you are bringing up, a QB is the most important position of a team. Sucking here can not even be outplayed by a great defense, something we are far way from.
An average Freeman still allows a great defense carry him. An average Freeman still allows us to find an upgrade at QB elsewhere. At worst we take a cap hit for ONE year, but then we KNOW why are doing it.

I do not say sign him at all cost, but not even trying to get a deal done is a horrible idea.

You don't re-sign average.  You let average go somewhere else so that you can beat them.

QaZ

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#924 : December 13, 2012, 11:15:45 AM


 " An average Freeman still allows a great defense carry him."

Seen one of those around here?

exactly what i'm talking about. spending more money and draft picks will just make it harder for us to ever get such a defense.
Imagine what a worse QB would do with our defense.

chace1986

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#925 : December 13, 2012, 11:16:18 AM

If you dont sign Freeman to a long term deal now then he will be another quarterback to leave the bucs and get a superbowl. Then you all would be **CENSORED**ing about never having a franchise QB.

Ok. So both scenarios lead to the Bucs not winning a Super Bowl. So the obvious choice is let him walk, save $, and find QB who might lead us there.

Cool.


Chief Joseph

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#926 : December 13, 2012, 11:18:00 AM


So your plan is average offense, great defense. How long do you see this taking to develop?

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

QaZ

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#927 : December 13, 2012, 11:20:31 AM


You don't re-sign average.  You let average go somewhere else so that you can beat them.

Or he beats you and your worse QB with this very same crappy defense.
Average is still better than 50%.

You do not trade average for worse.

TBayXXXVII

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#928 : December 13, 2012, 11:24:08 AM


You don't re-sign average.  You let average go somewhere else so that you can beat them.

Or he beats you and your worse QB with this very same crappy defense.
Average is still better than 50%.

You do not trade average for worse.

#1... A change at QB doesn't automatically make the change worse.
#2... The money you save by not spending it on a crappy QB, you can use to pay other players to improve your defense.
#3... We lose WITH Freeman, losing without him changes nothing.

chace1986

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#929 : December 13, 2012, 11:28:41 AM

You could equate this to a guy who has a girlfriend, and the sex is just "meh". He chooses to take the plunge, but only for the reason that he fears that the next p***y would be worse.

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