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chace1986

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#105 : December 06, 2012, 06:29:33 PM

Ok, that's fine...but the point was which QB has had the better year in 2012, or which has a a better defense backing them up. It was pointing specifically at a game in which Russell had the chance to be overcome by the moment of being on the road, in December, against a quality opponent..and the dude stood up and led the Seachicks on two drives in the 4th qtr and OT that won them that game. Freeman has not been able to make these plays, while Russell Wilson, as a rookie, seems plenty capable.

So R Wilson is great, the star alingned that day for him. But how many chances did Freeman choke away under similar circumstances? Why did he not put them away earlier in the game, CHI just scored 17 points that game?

Don't get me wrong i'm high on Wilson, wasn't so high on Freeman when he came out. But i do not see how russell is already THE guy, while Freeman should not atleast still have a decent shot at it, when Freeman is not even 1 year older. When you say he already has 3.5 years in the NFL, he also did not spend 5 years in college to be as ready as in his early years.

Who said Russell Wilson was great? I don't know whether Wilson is the "guy" for the hawks...but I do know that he was able to go to a quality opponent and play absolutely clutch late in the game. I am not confident Freeman could do the same.

To the bold, that is very confusing. Maybe you should type things out in your first language and I can just throw it into google translate.

To the last sentence in your retort....3.5 yrs in the NFL >>> 5 years in college. I lol'd at that one.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

chace1986

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#106 : December 06, 2012, 06:33:39 PM

Really Chace? The Lions? We won that game and you know it. Free hit Winslow in the end zone and the robbed us. NFL even admitted it on the following Monday.

Yes, really. We lost that game. Bad calls happen. Sorry to be blunt, but only a blind homer thinks that: A. We "really" won that game. B. That singular call kept up out of the postseason

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010121908/2010/REG15/lions@buccaneers?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#menu=gamepass&tab=recap

The Bucs lost that game. Period.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

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#107 : December 06, 2012, 06:38:31 PM

Ok, that's fine...but the point was which QB has had the better year in 2012, or which has a a better defense backing them up. It was pointing specifically at a game in which Russell had the chance to be overcome by the moment of being on the road, in December, against a quality opponent..and the dude stood up and led the Seachicks on two drives in the 4th qtr and OT that won them that game. Freeman has not been able to make these plays, while Russell Wilson, as a rookie, seems plenty capable.

So R Wilson is great, the star alingned that day for him. But how many chances did Freeman choke away under similar circumstances? Why did he not put them away earlier in the game, CHI just scored 17 points that game?

Don't get me wrong i'm high on Wilson, wasn't so high on Freeman when he came out. But i do not see how russell is already THE guy, while Freeman should not atleast still have a decent shot at it, when Freeman is not even 1 year older. When you say he already has 3.5 years in the NFL, he also did not spend 5 years in college to be as ready as in his early years.

Who said Russell Wilson was great? I don't know whether Wilson is the "guy" for the hawks...but I do know that he was able to go to a quality opponent and play absolutely clutch late in the game. I am not confident Freeman could do the same.

To the bold, that is very confusing. Maybe you should type things out in your first language and I can just throw it into google translate.

To the last sentence in your retort....3.5 yrs in the NFL >>> 5 years in college. I lol'd at that one.

Yes I know, the win at Carolina wasn't against a real NFL defense, so it doesn't count! 80 yards in less than 60 seconds a two point conversion and a td in the first drive OT. Yes, I see why you question his ability to function under pressure.  smh

Bucpride5

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#108 : December 06, 2012, 06:38:54 PM


Playing well enough to beat quality teams and secure a playoff spot > being near the top of "several important statistics in passing"

several important statistics in passing = cherry picked stats that don't tell the whole story

whole story = In 3.5 years, Freeman has not been able to step up and deliver against quality opponents in the middle of a playoff run.

But we are talking about extending FREMANN, not the WHOLE team.
So why are you bringing up team accomplishments, while calling pointing at indiviual stats cherry picking?

Were those teams in 2010 and 2011 PO bound, just one quality QB away from the big thing? Why is M Stafford already out of it now, with still 4 weeks to go? What did Eli do between those two SBs? Why is Marino still THE quaterback , having the best coach in the history of the game at the sideline, but not winning one single ring?

I'm going backt to 2010, i do not get why i should give Freeman any more credit for 2010, had K2 not draw that flag in week 16. We were 10-6, and missed the PO, SEA got in with 7-9, did they have a better QB? Freeman did enough to have a shot at sneaking in the POs, like Rodgers did, or Eli twice. Just because of a few coincidence i do not see why i should see him as a guy keeping us out of the POs. Yes, he did not carry us to an undisputed  PO appearence yet , like Ryan did multiple times or Eli and Rodgers each once . But aint it funny that all those team went winless after?

I think he is good enough, this team has enough other holes to fill, before i would see him as THE weakness of THIS team. Sure, a better QB would help, but why risk getting a worse one, why waste draft picks and money searching for one, when you could use them somewhere else,  f/e improving our sub par defense.

There were no team accomplishments.

While Freeman playing better in 2011 may have only resulted in 2-3 more wins...in 2010, Freeman had chances to win games against the Lions and the Falcons, and he failed to step it up. Say what you want to about the Winslow PI call, or Stovall's missed tackle, but the fact is that Freeman plays the most important position on the field and he did step up to the plate to help secure the win. Sure, they lost as a team, but Freeman's role as QB and as the leader of that squad should have had him do what he was able to do in the first half of the season, which was play clutch ball in the 4th qtr.

So if the defense can't get a stop or if the special teams allow a return for 6, it's on the QB? Got it! And Marino wasn't as good as Kurt Warner because he never won the SB, right?

QB gets too much credit and too much criticsm.

Freeman has led the Bucs to quite a few 4th quarter comebacks. Has endured multiple coordinators, bad coaching, a bad supporting cast (2009 & 2010) and a historically atrocius defense in 2010. Football is a complementary game. If you have a dominant or even average defense it creates more opportunities for your offense to score. If you have a dominant or explosive offense it can keep your defense well rested.

I said at the begining of the year 2012 was a learning year for the coaching staff and all the young players. Coaching staff has to learn the strengths and weakness's of their players and with so many young players on the roster they'd need time to develop and gel. I'm not a playoff believer in 2012 but in 2013 I think this team takes a huge step and becomes even more competitive.

For all the Anti Freeman fans, what would your solution be? Don't extend him, let him be a player with no security? Then have that possibly be a distraction for him because, you the media would constantly be asking him about it. Not extending a player who is on pace for 4,000 yards and over 30 TD's is almost insane to me.

Formerly known as T

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QaZ

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#109 : December 06, 2012, 06:43:24 PM


There were no team accomplishments.

While Freeman playing better in 2011 may have only resulted in 2-3 more wins...in 2010, Freeman had chances to win games against the Lions and the Falcons, and he failed to step it up. Say what you want to about the Winslow PI call, or Stovall's missed tackle, but the fact is that Freeman plays the most important position on the field and he did step up to the plate to help secure the win. Sure, they lost as a team, but Freeman's role as QB and as the leader of that squad should have had him do what he was able to do in the first half of the season, which was play clutch ball in the 4th qtr.

You make the POs as a team you win games as one. Some teams go 10-6, could/should be 11-5 and miss, other teams go 7-9 and make it, while the one team destroyed 'em at home 2 weeks before. 1 team has a home PO wins on their record, the other team a 'meanginless' win @NO.

So Freeman plays better than last year but just gets a few more wins, does that not make you think about team accomplishments? A QB might be the most important player on the team, but as its seems his play does not directly translate into wins. Funny how we were 4-2 last year, and he wasnt even good during the strecht, prolly not worse than that 10 game loosing streak.

Freeman has 2 good season under his belt, 1 rookie season at an age when other QB start about to become more than just game managers AT COLLEGE, and 1 season in which he forced to much, seemed to  not have TE no #1 WR, no running game and a D# that gave up on the HC, with the youngest team in the history of the game and the lowest pay roll, owners that were too cheap to keep a locker room guy like Ruud.
Under other circumstance this already might have lead to more success, on teams like BAL or NYJ or PIT. Yes, with good/great defenses, but why should already carry a team from day one, when other QB did not do any better than him at same age?
 

BucBalla85

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#110 : December 06, 2012, 06:49:57 PM

I think this is coming down to a difference of people who are extremely hard on him and those who are not as much so. I don't think we will see anybody who's been hard on him change their minds until Freeman wins some big games or the Super Bowl. Which is understandable. I just think what some people are saying here are facts not excuses. It's really all about how you want to look at it. I think being a 24 year old QB in this league is difficult and that's a fact. It's not an excuse. He's only gonna get smarter as he ages. If that helps him be more consistent then we got ourselves a pretty damn good QB. He's finally got some good coaches to help him in that process. Which he didn't have before. He's got some weapons too now which he didn't really have much of before.

 I think he's gonna get better and it would be wise for this team to lock him up this offseason. Next year he could be top 5 QB. I could realistically see that happening. If that happens then we gotta spend a crap load on him. If you do it now after a pretty good season, your spending less than you would next year. I honestly don't see him doing worse next year. Another year in this offense is only gonna make him better. Sign him now while he is still cheap and you can structure it in your favor too. Vs next year when he will most likely have a better year. He did as the year went on this year. Why wouldn't he next year?
: December 06, 2012, 08:08:57 PM BucBalla85

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#111 : December 06, 2012, 06:52:24 PM

Don't extend him and have a chance at what? Drafting the next Mark Sanchez? We have a good young QB that can only get better and some act as if he's the reason why we can't win the big games. Put Freeman on the 49ers right now and they'll be a superbowl lock, they would bench Kapernick and Smith in a heartbeat. Free is a damned good quarterback and it's about time that we keep the one we found.

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#112 : December 06, 2012, 06:56:56 PM



3.5 yrs in the NFL >>> 5 years in college. I lol'd at that one.

While Wilson has a good rookie season at the age of 24, Freeman had one in 2010, when he was 22, almost 23 to be honest, since Wilson turned 24 in november.
Freeman spend 3 years in college, i count 5 for Wilson. The NFL might help a QB more than those few hours a week at college, but 2 more years there do not hurt either. After five years at college Freeman could have had a better 2011, as his rookie season, than what he did in 09 or what Wilson is doing now.

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#113 : December 06, 2012, 07:04:09 PM

While some are ready to judge Freeman on what he has done from age 20-24 on a talentless team and horrible coaching and say it isn't good enough, I'm saying give him a 6 year deal and see what he does from age 25-30 with great coaching and the weapons we have already surrounded him with this year.

I really really hate this line of thinking.  If you think Freeman is THE guy, and indisputably will be a top 10 guy for the next 5 seasons, then I have no problem with saying extend him.  However, if you are unsure about him and say "extend him, let's see what happens", there is almost nothing worse you can do to your franchise.  What if he doesn't have that great coaching?  If he needs Sullivan to be good, what happens if he takes one of the jobs he's already being rumored for?  I'm all for waiting and seeing, and asking Free to prove he can be that guy, rather than giving him an extension based on beating up on the bottom-dwellers.

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#114 : December 06, 2012, 07:46:47 PM

While some are ready to judge Freeman on what he has done from age 20-24 on a talentless team and horrible coaching

I wouldn't trade Rah for anyone!

Illuminator is a good poster. He sticks to his guns and makes good points. Some don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t like that.

Dolorous Jason

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#115 : December 06, 2012, 07:48:14 PM

Also, FWIW, I think that Campbell is a terrible comparison, I was just using the coordinator comparison.  I think Joe Flacco is a fantastic comparison, not necessarily skillset, but success and relative ranking amongst the NFL starting QBs.  And there's a reason that Joe Flacco doesn't have a contract yet despite being in a contract year.  He's not an elite QB, and not a top 10 QB.  He's somewhere in the 12-16 range, right with Freeman.  And there's the question if you want to hitch your wagon to that long-term.

I like the comparison to Flacco but I think Freeman is worth more to this team than Flacco is to Baltimore. Thats why I think we will see Freeman get resigned this summer. The Bucs need to take some pressure off of Freeman and say your our guy. Flacco can be a game manager for Baltimore and they will still win games. Freeman needs to shine for this team to win games. If Freeman doesnt play well, chances are this team loses.

Freeman vs. Flacco footrace would be a photo finish .

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

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#116 : December 06, 2012, 07:50:40 PM

Aman, it's always "sign him and see what happens" Nothing is ever guaranteed, but I've seen enough of Freeman in the past and again very recently, to say the odds are in our favor. There is no doubt that he had a slump. You can blame it on all sorts of things, but there was a slump. That makes it hard to trust him 100%, Harder for some than others, but before and after the slump he has looked very good.

People forget about 2009 when he came out and beat the Packers in his first start ever, or the trouncing of the Seahawks, or the OT win at New Orleans. Or the close games vs the Dolphins and Falcons. Freeman was an exciting rookie too. In 2010 he was the come back kid. He was the talk of the NFL and he lead a team of rookies and cast offs to 10-6 (shoulda been 11-5) and missed the playoffs by the skin of his teeth! Then in 2011 the wheels fall off. The entire team sucked out loud and so did Freeman. Whoa is me. This year he started off rocky but has gotten better and has one of the top passing attacks in the NFL. All the evidence has him trending upwards.....but he's still inconsistent.....so lets find someone else. I'm sure it has nothing to do with his first three years of incompetent coaching.

The kid is 24 years old. He's smart. He's a well behaved good mannered guy. He's a competitor. He's a hard worker. He'll get better and better with good coaching, and he has that now.


Benchwarmer#1

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#117 : December 06, 2012, 07:54:16 PM

This defense couldn't stop a balloon from flying by them.

This offense however, has broken Buc records all across the board.

Who's to blame for losses? Does freeman have to play LB too? Is there any way vj could cover as a CB? ...seriously though, freeman would be light years better with some defensive help. Stopping the run is something anyone can do with the right type of play calls. Dom absolutely needs to make a trade for a CB or DT, and whichever one he doesn't trade/fa for, he should obtain the other via draft day.

Freeman has done enough, IMO, to get his payday. I don't ever want to relive the doug Williams days. History has a funny way of repeating itself. Count me out of that mess and re-sign the guy already.

Naismith was right about Revis. Everyone else is a dummy.

TheAman

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#118 : December 06, 2012, 07:59:26 PM

I don't think anyone here is saying let's find someone else this second.  At least I'm not.  I'm saying given the choice between giving him an extension this week, or waiting a while, I wait.  I want him to prove his consistency against the middle-of-the-pack teams before revolving the franchise's next decade (and yes, it's decade, because the ramifications of hitching your wagon to a QB lasts that long) around him.

Dolorous Jason

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#119 : December 06, 2012, 07:59:57 PM

Re-sign him on the condition that he gains the weight back . Skinny Freeman is a statue in the pocket and it's annoying.

It's time to kill Josh Flacco and bring back Josh Rothlisberger.

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           
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