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chace1986

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#30 : December 12, 2012, 11:17:00 PM

Freemans the man dude. Can it. If the receivers were reading the defense add good as he was then they would be where the ball often ends up. Like Dallas Clark stopping the route and during down with a big ass d lineman covering him.

Lol. So it's the WRs fault that Freeman was overshooting them and throwing behind them, most of the day?

Josh is only 24.  Those overthrows will stop when his balls drop.
I laughed out loud reading this...it seems to be the mantra for the four year experiment...give him another four!

By the time the BUcs relocate, he might be great!

His accuracy is god awful...not sure how anyone can deny this. If they do, they aren't really observant, or are secretly in man-love mode.  His throws have been so awful at times my friends watching the games with me have literally laughed out loud, and patted me on the back at the same time, because I was fuming mad...
This is a read, react offense. The vast majority of the routes are option routes. Look at other quarterbacks who play in similar offenses. They never have the highest percentages. Dink and dunk and throw for 70 percent like Alex Smith sure. But this fan base just got done complaining about the west coast system and check downs for the last decade. Now you have one of the top down field passing threats, that consistently throws the ball down field (so much so that Preston Parker had to be cut because he's only effective at 5 yards route and isn't good enough to get open on these down the field option routes) but you wanna wine about completion percentage. Eli is in the sane offense and he has similar games to josh' Sunday performance every year. Check where he stands in yards per completion or passes 20 yards or more down the field bud.

Pause for a second. Go to the top of your screen and close the window/tab that has the random stat site pulled up. Let's just talk about the games that you are physically witnessing on Sundays.

In doing that, if you can come away from watching all of Freeman's performances over the years and you still continue to argue that he does not have issues with accuracy, then you are showing one of two things.

You don't catch very many Bucs games. Or you are blinded by the potential Freeman has and what you are desperate for him to become. Let's try and be objective. ;)
: December 12, 2012, 11:18:33 PM chace1986


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

Ms Elam

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#31 : December 12, 2012, 11:17:28 PM

Freemans the man dude. Can it. If the receivers were reading the defense add good as he was then they would be where the ball often ends up. Like Dallas Clark stopping the route and during down with a big ass d lineman covering him.

Lol. So it's the WRs fault that Freeman was overshooting them and throwing behind them, most of the day?

...ok...by all means, continue to candy coat his performance, dude.


That is a dudette.......just sayin.

I have no clue whether that poster is a male or female, regardless of the screen name...so "dude" remains.



Sounds like a good description of Java's gals.

Lol. I have had a susplcion that this Elam poster was someone bi-posting based upon posts I saw when that account first showed up.
What does my gender have to do with realizing we have a young stud at qb like we've never had.  Excuse me for being excited about finally having a damn quarterback who can do great things. If this fan base wants to let Freeman walk then I'll enjoy posting when he leaves here and wins a superbowl like Doug Williams, and Steve young and the rest of em. Then I'll sit back and listen to you all wine about not having a franchise qb. joker joker duce duce **CENSORED**ezzzzz

Did you even read what was said? I'll help break it down for you.

Your gender has nothing to do with the opinion you express here of Freeman. All that was implied was that it is impossible to tell whether someone is male or female based on a screen name.

You are excused, by the way.

Lol @ "damn QB who can do great things". Play a lot of madden?
I simply said he "can" (not "is" or "did") do great things. You don't think he can? Ever, the thought of that made you laugh out loud? Seriously, have you seen some of his come from behind victories? No?
9th best int to TD ratio of ALL TIME? 22 year old josh Freeman with a 4th round rookie as his number 1 receiver and a33 year old sack of potatoes for a head coach. Yea he's done some great things but let's pretend he never has and blame it madden because that's what we do around here.

chace1986

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#32 : December 12, 2012, 11:25:25 PM

Freemans the man dude. Can it. If the receivers were reading the defense add good as he was then they would be where the ball often ends up. Like Dallas Clark stopping the route and during down with a big ass d lineman covering him.

Lol. So it's the WRs fault that Freeman was overshooting them and throwing behind them, most of the day?

...ok...by all means, continue to candy coat his performance, dude.


That is a dudette.......just sayin.

I have no clue whether that poster is a male or female, regardless of the screen name...so "dude" remains.



Sounds like a good description of Java's gals.

Lol. I have had a susplcion that this Elam poster was someone bi-posting based upon posts I saw when that account first showed up.
What does my gender have to do with realizing we have a young stud at qb like we've never had.  Excuse me for being excited about finally having a damn quarterback who can do great things. If this fan base wants to let Freeman walk then I'll enjoy posting when he leaves here and wins a superbowl like Doug Williams, and Steve young and the rest of em. Then I'll sit back and listen to you all wine about not having a franchise qb. joker joker duce duce **CENSORED**ezzzzz

Did you even read what was said? I'll help break it down for you.

Your gender has nothing to do with the opinion you express here of Freeman. All that was implied was that it is impossible to tell whether someone is male or female based on a screen name.

You are excused, by the way.

Lol @ "damn QB who can do great things". Play a lot of madden?
I simply said he "can" (not "is" or "did") do great things. You don't think he can? Ever, the thought of that made you laugh out loud? Seriously, have you seen some of his come from behind victories? No?
9th best int to TD ratio of ALL TIME? 22 year old josh Freeman with a 4th round rookie as his number 1 receiver and a33 year old sack of potatoes for a head coach. Yea he's done some great things but let's pretend he never has and blame it madden because that's what we do around here.

Does he have great size and athleticism? Yup. Has he shown that he has the potential to great things? I think the word great might be a stretch. I would say "good". Let's see him lead a comeback against a quality team. Hell lets see him play 4 qtrs of good football against good teams.

Yes, I have seen his come from behind victories. I have seen the stats. I know his age. That said, I know how to put those things into perspective. He has yet to show consistency and he struggles to step up in a big game vs a quality opponent. I recognize Freeman has a lot of strengths and has plenty of upside. I would say that the difference between you and I, is that I don't ignore his deficiencies.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

Ms Elam

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#33 : December 12, 2012, 11:25:57 PM

Freemans the man dude. Can it. If the receivers were reading the defense add good as he was then they would be where the ball often ends up. Like Dallas Clark stopping the route and during down with a big ass d lineman covering him.

Lol. So it's the WRs fault that Freeman was overshooting them and throwing behind them, most of the day?

Josh is only 24.  Those overthrows will stop when his balls drop.
I laughed out loud reading this...it seems to be the mantra for the four year experiment...give him another four!

By the time the BUcs relocate, he might be great!

His accuracy is god awful...not sure how anyone can deny this. If they do, they aren't really observant, or are secretly in man-love mode.  His throws have been so awful at times my friends watching the games with me have literally laughed out loud, and patted me on the back at the same time, because I was fuming mad...
This is a read, react offense. The vast majority of the routes are option routes. Look at other quarterbacks who play in similar offenses. They never have the highest percentages. Dink and dunk and throw for 70 percent like Alex Smith sure. But this fan base just got done complaining about the west coast system and check downs for the last decade. Now you have one of the top down field passing threats, that consistently throws the ball down field (so much so that Preston Parker had to be cut because he's only effective at 5 yards route and isn't good enough to get open on these down the field option routes) but you wanna wine about completion percentage. Eli is in the sane offense and he has similar games to josh' Sunday performance every year. Check where he stands in yards per completion or passes 20 yards or more down the field bud.

Pause for a second. Go to the top of your screen and close the window/tab that has the random stat site pulled up. Let's just talk about the games that you are physically witnessing on Sundays.

In doing that, if you can come away from watching all of Freeman's performances over the years and you still continue to argue that he does not have issues with accuracy, then you are showing one of two things.

You don't catch very many Bucs games. Or you are blinded by the potential Freeman has and what you are desperate for him to become. Let's try and be objective. ;)
Freeman misses throws I never said he didn't but name a quarterback who doesn't miss a throw on Sundays............. Tim Tebow and that's cause his ass on the bench. Just because I appreciate the good things Freemans done doesn't mean i'm not objective.

Ms Elam

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#34 : December 12, 2012, 11:46:32 PM

Freemans the man dude. Can it. If the receivers were reading the defense add good as he was then they would be where the ball often ends up. Like Dallas Clark stopping the route and during down with a big ass d lineman covering him.

Lol. So it's the WRs fault that Freeman was overshooting them and throwing behind them, most of the day?

...ok...by all means, continue to candy coat his performance, dude.


That is a dudette.......just sayin.

I have no clue whether that poster is a male or female, regardless of the screen name...so "dude" remains.



Sounds like a good description of Java's gals.

Lol. I have had a susplcion that this Elam poster was someone bi-posting based upon posts I saw when that account first showed up.
What does my gender have to do with realizing we have a young stud at qb like we've never had.  Excuse me for being excited about finally having a damn quarterback who can do great things. If this fan base wants to let Freeman walk then I'll enjoy posting when he leaves here and wins a superbowl like Doug Williams, and Steve young and the rest of em. Then I'll sit back and listen to you all wine about not having a franchise qb. joker joker duce duce **CENSORED**ezzzzz

Did you even read what was said? I'll help break it down for you.

Your gender has nothing to do with the opinion you express here of Freeman. All that was implied was that it is impossible to tell whether someone is male or female based on a screen name.

You are excused, by the way.

Lol @ "damn QB who can do great things". Play a lot of madden?
I simply said he "can" (not "is" or "did") do great things. You don't think he can? Ever, the thought of that made you laugh out loud? Seriously, have you seen some of his come from behind victories? No?
9th best int to TD ratio of ALL TIME? 22 year old josh Freeman with a 4th round rookie as his number 1 receiver and a33 year old sack of potatoes for a head coach. Yea he's done some great things but let's pretend he never has and blame it madden because that's what we do around here.

Does he have great size and athleticism? Yup. Has he shown that he has the potential to great things? I think the word great might be a stretch. I would say "good". Let's see him lead a comeback against a quality team. Hell lets see him play 4 qtrs of good football against good teams.

Yes, I have seen his come from behind victories. I have seen the stats. I know his age. That said, I know how to put those things into perspective. He has yet to show consistency and he struggles to step up in a big game vs a quality opponent. I recognize Freeman has a lot of strengths and has plenty of upside. I would say that the difference between you and I, is that I don't ignore his deficiencies.
Where did I "ignore" his deficiencies? He misses throws. He has played well in several games against good teams. This team hasn't been a "quality" team since Freeman got here . Would it be great if he could've took a team full of 22 year olds and beat the steelers his second year? Sure. But he didn't. Let's not put the blame squarely on a young "developing" quarterback. Remember Blount missing the whole on 4th and 1 in ATL. Our Greg Olson not spreading it out going with 3 or 4 receiver sets until the second to last drive against the ravens.  Even the announcer said buc fans have to be thinking its a bit to late for that. One more possession and Freeman wins that game. Or how about the refs robbing him of the touchdown pass to Winslow against Detroit, that would've given us 11 wins and a playoff spot. He came into the league before he was ready and the team he went to damn sure wasnt built to win. He's done a lot off good things but let's over react from one game.

chace1986

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#35 : December 12, 2012, 11:57:26 PM

Freemans the man dude. Can it. If the receivers were reading the defense add good as he was then they would be where the ball often ends up. Like Dallas Clark stopping the route and during down with a big ass d lineman covering him.

Lol. So it's the WRs fault that Freeman was overshooting them and throwing behind them, most of the day?

...ok...by all means, continue to candy coat his performance, dude.


That is a dudette.......just sayin.

I have no clue whether that poster is a male or female, regardless of the screen name...so "dude" remains.



Sounds like a good description of Java's gals.

Lol. I have had a susplcion that this Elam poster was someone bi-posting based upon posts I saw when that account first showed up.
What does my gender have to do with realizing we have a young stud at qb like we've never had.  Excuse me for being excited about finally having a damn quarterback who can do great things. If this fan base wants to let Freeman walk then I'll enjoy posting when he leaves here and wins a superbowl like Doug Williams, and Steve young and the rest of em. Then I'll sit back and listen to you all wine about not having a franchise qb. joker joker duce duce **CENSORED**ezzzzz

Did you even read what was said? I'll help break it down for you.

Your gender has nothing to do with the opinion you express here of Freeman. All that was implied was that it is impossible to tell whether someone is male or female based on a screen name.

You are excused, by the way.

Lol @ "damn QB who can do great things". Play a lot of madden?
I simply said he "can" (not "is" or "did") do great things. You don't think he can? Ever, the thought of that made you laugh out loud? Seriously, have you seen some of his come from behind victories? No?
9th best int to TD ratio of ALL TIME? 22 year old josh Freeman with a 4th round rookie as his number 1 receiver and a33 year old sack of potatoes for a head coach. Yea he's done some great things but let's pretend he never has and blame it madden because that's what we do around here.

Does he have great size and athleticism? Yup. Has he shown that he has the potential to great things? I think the word great might be a stretch. I would say "good". Let's see him lead a comeback against a quality team. Hell lets see him play 4 qtrs of good football against good teams.

Yes, I have seen his come from behind victories. I have seen the stats. I know his age. That said, I know how to put those things into perspective. He has yet to show consistency and he struggles to step up in a big game vs a quality opponent. I recognize Freeman has a lot of strengths and has plenty of upside. I would say that the difference between you and I, is that I don't ignore his deficiencies.
Where did I "ignore" his deficiencies? He misses throws. He has played well in several games against good teams. This team hasn't been a "quality" team since Freeman got here . Would it be great if he could've took a team full of 22 year olds and beat the steelers his second year? Sure. But he didn't. Let's not put the blame squarely on a young "developing" quarterback. Remember Blount missing the whole on 4th and 1 in ATL. Our Greg Olson not spreading it out going with 3 or 4 receiver sets until the second to last drive against the ravens.  Even the announcer said buc fans have to be thinking its a bit to late for that. One more possession and Freeman wins that game. Or how about the refs robbing him of the touchdown pass to Winslow against Detroit, that would've given us 11 wins and a playoff spot. He came into the league before he was ready and the team he went to damn sure wasnt built to win. He's done a lot off good things but let's over react from one game.

All this comes off as one big excuse for Freeman's inaccuracy.
"This is a read, react offense. The vast majority of the routes are option routes. Look at other quarterbacks who play in similar offenses. They never have the highest percentages. Dink and dunk and throw for 70 percent like Alex Smith sure. But this fan base just got done complaining about the west coast system and check downs for the last decade. Now you have one of the top down field passing threats, that consistently throws the ball down field (so much so that Preston Parker had to be cut because he's only effective at 5 yards route and isn't good enough to get open on these down the field option routes) but you wanna wine about completion percentage. Eli is in the sane offense and he has similar games to josh' Sunday performance every year. Check where he stands in yards per completion or passes 20 yards or more down the field bud."

The blame isn't solely on Freeman for losing to quality teams, he just doesn't step up when given the opportunity. He was awful in that game vs the Ravens, he threw the late pick vs the Falcons in the second matchup that year. The refs stole nothing from us. Freeman could have played better in that Detroit game.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

chace1986

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#36 : December 12, 2012, 11:59:11 PM

Freemans the man dude. Can it. If the receivers were reading the defense add good as he was then they would be where the ball often ends up. Like Dallas Clark stopping the route and during down with a big ass d lineman covering him.

Lol. So it's the WRs fault that Freeman was overshooting them and throwing behind them, most of the day?

Josh is only 24.  Those overthrows will stop when his balls drop.
I laughed out loud reading this...it seems to be the mantra for the four year experiment...give him another four!

By the time the BUcs relocate, he might be great!

His accuracy is god awful...not sure how anyone can deny this. If they do, they aren't really observant, or are secretly in man-love mode.  His throws have been so awful at times my friends watching the games with me have literally laughed out loud, and patted me on the back at the same time, because I was fuming mad...
This is a read, react offense. The vast majority of the routes are option routes. Look at other quarterbacks who play in similar offenses. They never have the highest percentages. Dink and dunk and throw for 70 percent like Alex Smith sure. But this fan base just got done complaining about the west coast system and check downs for the last decade. Now you have one of the top down field passing threats, that consistently throws the ball down field (so much so that Preston Parker had to be cut because he's only effective at 5 yards route and isn't good enough to get open on these down the field option routes) but you wanna wine about completion percentage. Eli is in the sane offense and he has similar games to josh' Sunday performance every year. Check where he stands in yards per completion or passes 20 yards or more down the field bud.

Pause for a second. Go to the top of your screen and close the window/tab that has the random stat site pulled up. Let's just talk about the games that you are physically witnessing on Sundays.

In doing that, if you can come away from watching all of Freeman's performances over the years and you still continue to argue that he does not have issues with accuracy, then you are showing one of two things.

You don't catch very many Bucs games. Or you are blinded by the potential Freeman has and what you are desperate for him to become. Let's try and be objective. ;)
Freeman misses throws I never said he didn't but name a quarterback who doesn't miss a throw on Sundays............. Tim Tebow and that's cause his ass on the bench. Just because I appreciate the good things Freemans done doesn't mean i'm not objective.

Pure 100% cop-out.


Until preseason, you stay classy Red Board.

SunnyD

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#37 : December 13, 2012, 12:01:34 AM

I do think it's unfair to violently judge Freeman on a game to game basis.

However, you can see that accuracy has been a serious problem for him over his four year career.

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#38 : December 13, 2012, 12:15:37 AM

Sorry "Ms Elam" but people aren't going crazy over one game here.  The problem with Josh is he is seriously limited and has shown no progress in the areas he's limited.  He's like a fighter who can't box to save his life, but has a great left hook.  He's gonna win a decent amount of bouts with that hook, and even when he's behind he always gives you the proverbial "puncher's chance".  But if you can execute and avoid that hook, he becomes as harmless as a bunny rabbit.  He'll land a couple in any fight, but if you just pay attention to that one thing you don't have to worry about him beating you with anything else.

Now that is fine, and you can certainly win with a guy like that.  You always have your Dilfers and Rypiens getting an occasional ring.  But you have to be honest with yourself and acknowledge that your guy is very limited.  Josh HAS to have the people around him for him to succeed.  He isn't the guy who can make the people around him succeed.  He's not that guy, there isn't a damn bit of evidence to show that he ever will be.  If you think you've seen it you are deluding yourself based on what you hope, rather than what you have seen.  Every "defense" of Josh seems based on what people hope he will turn into, not on what he is now.  Well, what he is now is what he's going to turn into.  His balls have already dropped, he is what he is and what he will be already. 

The question is, do you roll with what you have, knowing that you can potentially win with him but you need a great team around him to do so, or do you bag it and try again to find the guy who will carry the rest of your team to the top?

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#39 : December 13, 2012, 12:45:21 AM

I can honestly say this article sums up everything I felt on Sunday afternoon.

Everything.

What an absolutely infuriating day.


Me too!!! I'm so pissed I am not going to the last game.  First game I will miss in 15 years.

SunnyD

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#40 : December 13, 2012, 03:13:47 AM

or do you bag it and try again to find the guy who will carry the rest of your team to the top?

That could be a 5-10 year gambit (or 34, maybe even 37 years in the Buc's case)

Which will inevitably cost a lot of people their jobs...

Hell, me and you could both be dead by the time the Bucs find a guy that can "carry the rest of your team to the top)
: December 13, 2012, 03:15:26 AM SunnyD

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#41 : December 13, 2012, 03:20:13 AM

This situation reminds  me a lot of Andy Reid and Donovan McNabb.

McNabb was rarely consistently accurate but Reid rode him because he knew he was just good enough to let him keep his job.

He never won Reid a championship however.

But as soon as McNabb's career ended, Reid's tenure as a HC in Philly began circling the drain.

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#42 : December 13, 2012, 03:43:24 AM

Best quarterback we've had in who-knows-how-long; and 90% of this fan base is already looking for his replacement?  Thanks Josh! Best season you've had in your 3 and a half year career. Everyone thinks you're garbage. Pathetic.
: December 13, 2012, 03:45:14 AM DonkeyHunter

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#43 : December 13, 2012, 03:45:22 AM

or do you bag it and try again to find the guy who will carry the rest of your team to the top?

That could be a 5-10 year gambit (or 34, maybe even 37 years in the Buc's case)

Which will inevitably cost a lot of people their jobs...

Hell, me and you could both be dead by the time the Bucs find a guy that can "carry the rest of your team to the top)

It could be a "never happens" proposition as well.  OTOH, if you don't take the shot you can't win the brass pony either.

It's a tough call.  Josh hasn't made it any easier to make with his play either. 


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#44 : December 13, 2012, 05:21:35 AM

I don't know.

If we didn't have the worst pass defense in the history of everdome, we would probably be in the drivers seat for a playoff spot right now.

With a shot at the brass pony.
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