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BucNY

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#15 : December 28, 2012, 02:13:17 PM

The only legimate gripe people have against Freeman is his accuracy because it costs us 3rd downs directly or makes a 3rd and short 2nd and long by miss a simple route. Everything else is complete BS. You want to talk about his picks? He had 4 on Sunday, only 1 of those was on him. Mike Will directly caused 2 and the other I can't remember.

He needs to be better with his accuracy and get our 3rd down conversion rate up. Other than that he is fine.

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#16 : December 28, 2012, 02:16:06 PM

You seem to be missing my point, I assume I'm doing a poor job conveying it. I was disagreeing with the notion that you know what you have with a QB by year four. Montana had a 1.5:1 TD:INT ratio that year (worse than Freeman this year) and never had that low again. Elway threw more INTs than TDs in year six. That wasn't on par with QBs of that era. All of the QBs I listed weren't finished products in or after their fourth year.

There\'s a very real chance the Bucs waive [Revis] before next season. At the very least, it will be a discussion worth having.

TBayXXXVII

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#17 : December 28, 2012, 02:46:39 PM

You seem to be missing my point, I assume I'm doing a poor job conveying it. I was disagreeing with the notion that you know what you have with a QB by year four. Montana had a 1.5:1 TD:INT ratio that year (worse than Freeman this year) and never had that low again. Elway threw more INTs than TDs in year six. That wasn't on par with QBs of that era. All of the QBs I listed weren't finished products in or after their fourth year.

You win!  Freeman is a Hall of Famer.  Put him in Canton now. 

smh.  It's people like you that almost make me root for Freeman to have a Sanchez-type year next year so that he's no longer a part of this team.

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#18 : December 28, 2012, 03:07:37 PM

I wasn't trying to win anything, but I'm glad I did!

There\'s a very real chance the Bucs waive [Revis] before next season. At the very least, it will be a discussion worth having.

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#19 : December 28, 2012, 03:24:06 PM

I think waiting 4 years is enough of "patience". Freeman is what he is and it really isn't good. Unfortunately he's become the exact player most draft experts projected him out to be in 09.


BucBalla85

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#20 : December 28, 2012, 03:34:35 PM

I think "patience" really means fans are gonna have to wait another year because he is likely to get another shot at this. They aren't gonna give up on him yet.

wreck ship

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#21 : December 28, 2012, 06:16:37 PM

since when do the Bucs have fans?

philosophy is questions that may never be answered
religion is answers that may never be questioned

Dolorous Jason

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#22 : December 28, 2012, 07:59:13 PM

I'm staying patient because he is still our best option . None of the veterans that will be available are better than him , and this is a piss poor QB draft class.

Despite the Chicken Little's of the board , there is plenty of evidence to show that many talented QB's who had some struggles in thier 1st 4 seasons still became stars. Freeman could do the same.

What is your point? I was wrong? Ok. You win. I was wrong.

           

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#23 : December 28, 2012, 08:42:53 PM

My point was that none of those quarterbacks were close to a finished product in year four, just like Freeman isn't. Roethlisberger won a Super Bowl in his second season, but is a much better QB now, for instance.
Have you noticed what these QBs have in common, they were Super Bowl QBs and Pro Bowlers early (first 4 years), showing that the team could get the job done with them or they needed a change of scene to move on to the next level.
Josh hasn't even made the playoffs or sniffed the Pro Bowl and the team has won just 13 games combined during 3 of the 4 years he's been here (granted he only played half his rookie year so may have pulled off an extra 1 or 2 wins)

Have you noticed what else these QBs had in common, veteran rosters and stable coaching situations with great coaches and great schemes. Freeman has had none of that. He's been surrounded by very little talent, most of it young and inexperienced, some of it straight off the street. He got no reps as the starter the first year, and no offseason program in his third. The defense has been one of the worst in the entire league every year he's been here. His protection sucks and he's had to deal with a revolving door of schemes and coaches. He'll set franchise records for TDs and yardage Sunday despite all that, and we have fans here who don't even want to see what he could do in a second season with these coaches and this scheme. The Bucs have never had a team with this much offensive talent. If the defense can even be mediocre next year, this offense will carry the Bucs to the playoffs. I can't wait to see how Dominik and Schiano fix the issues this team has. Replacing Freeman would create an even bigger issue.

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#24 : December 28, 2012, 09:10:30 PM

     I would not be at all surprised if we bring in a QB to compete with Josh and Dan next year, unless they think Dan looks like he's ready to play. Don't see us just giving up on Josh at all, despite his occasional gaffe.
    No question there are other areas far worse off than at QB.
    This salary maneuvering by Dominick makes it look like we intend to be active in FA again; good! Year 2 under Schiano should be very, very, interesting...

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#25 : December 28, 2012, 09:15:18 PM

I recall Bud Grant offering the most succesful head coaches had a great staff, a loving wife and a franchise qbs or words to that effect.  And he added in reverse order. 

Freeman currently has above average talent around him.  The d has issues with too little experience and talent. 

The protection spent a good portion of the season performing very solidly, and if one considered the injuries, Bostad and his group have done very well.

Have you noticed Freeman can hit the broad side of a barn - that might be part of the problem he is currently having.  And if you add in his inability to read a defense, but rather stares his target down very frequently - well those two issues are problems.

And I think he will be re-signed - perhaps this off-season.  And I think that would be a good choice - bc a team is more than a franchise qb, and this guy shouldn't cost to much.  That allows for improvement of the rest of the team, assuming Dominick is up to the task
: December 28, 2012, 09:18:29 PM dbucfan

\"A Great Coach has to have a Patient Wife, A Loyal Dog, and a Great Quarterback. . . . but not necessarily in that order\" ~ Coach Bud Grant

SWAGGARRR

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#26 : December 28, 2012, 09:16:37 PM

These armchair GM fans are a bunch of idiots...

That's my message for the day...

I'm done...


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#27 : December 28, 2012, 09:17:47 PM

My point was that none of those quarterbacks were close to a finished product in year four, just like Freeman isn't. Roethlisberger won a Super Bowl in his second season, but is a much better QB now, for instance.
Have you noticed what these QBs have in common, they were Super Bowl QBs and Pro Bowlers early (first 4 years), showing that the team could get the job done with them or they needed a change of scene to move on to the next level.
Josh hasn't even made the playoffs or sniffed the Pro Bowl and the team has won just 13 games combined during 3 of the 4 years he's been here (granted he only played half his rookie year so may have pulled off an extra 1 or 2 wins)

Have you noticed what else these QBs had in common, veteran rosters and stable coaching situations with great coaches and great schemes. Freeman has had none of that. He's been surrounded by very little talent, most of it young and inexperienced, some of it straight off the street. He got no reps as the starter the first year, and no offseason program in his third. The defense has been one of the worst in the entire league every year he's been here. His protection sucks and he's had to deal with a revolving door of schemes and coaches. He'll set franchise records for TDs and yardage Sunday despite all that, and we have fans here who don't even want to see what he could do in a second season with these coaches and this scheme. The Bucs have never had a team with this much offensive talent. If the defense can even be mediocre next year, this offense will carry the Bucs to the playoffs. I can't wait to see how Dominik and Schiano fix the issues this team has. Replacing Freeman would create an even bigger issue.

Excuses! None of what you said excuses his play this year. He's supposed to lead this team to the playoffs despite all of that happening.

TBTrojan

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#28 : December 28, 2012, 10:37:52 PM

My point was that none of those quarterbacks were close to a finished product in year four, just like Freeman isn't. Roethlisberger won a Super Bowl in his second season, but is a much better QB now, for instance.
Have you noticed what these QBs have in common, they were Super Bowl QBs and Pro Bowlers early (first 4 years), showing that the team could get the job done with them or they needed a change of scene to move on to the next level.
Josh hasn't even made the playoffs or sniffed the Pro Bowl and the team has won just 13 games combined during 3 of the 4 years he's been here (granted he only played half his rookie year so may have pulled off an extra 1 or 2 wins)

Have you noticed what else these QBs had in common, veteran rosters and stable coaching situations with great coaches and great schemes. Freeman has had none of that. He's been surrounded by very little talent, most of it young and inexperienced, some of it straight off the street. He got no reps as the starter the first year, and no offseason program in his third. The defense has been one of the worst in the entire league every year he's been here. His protection sucks and he's had to deal with a revolving door of schemes and coaches. He'll set franchise records for TDs and yardage Sunday despite all that, and we have fans here who don't even want to see what he could do in a second season with these coaches and this scheme. The Bucs have never had a team with this much offensive talent. If the defense can even be mediocre next year, this offense will carry the Bucs to the playoffs. I can't wait to see how Dominik and Schiano fix the issues this team has. Replacing Freeman would create an even bigger issue.
You might want to check your excuse.
Just go and look at how veteran the Niners were in Montanas first full season.
On the D they started 3 rookies and only 2 players on the unit had been in the league more than 3 years.
On offense his RB was in year 4, FB year 3, #1 wideout year 3, the o line averaged 5 years.
Average age of the starting units was 26 years old, what was that about veterans again?
In terms of stable coaching staffs, Montana was a part of Walshs first draft as Niners head coach, it's not like he was established in any way and his QB coach Wyche had never coached (except for 1 season in college before he played in the NFL)

RogerGoodellSucks

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#29 : December 28, 2012, 11:32:57 PM

My point was that none of those quarterbacks were close to a finished product in year four, just like Freeman isn't. Roethlisberger won a Super Bowl in his second season, but is a much better QB now, for instance.
Have you noticed what these QBs have in common, they were Super Bowl QBs and Pro Bowlers early (first 4 years), showing that the team could get the job done with them or they needed a change of scene to move on to the next level.
Josh hasn't even made the playoffs or sniffed the Pro Bowl and the team has won just 13 games combined during 3 of the 4 years he's been here (granted he only played half his rookie year so may have pulled off an extra 1 or 2 wins)

Have you noticed what else these QBs had in common, veteran rosters and stable coaching situations with great coaches and great schemes. Freeman has had none of that. He's been surrounded by very little talent, most of it young and inexperienced, some of it straight off the street. He got no reps as the starter the first year, and no offseason program in his third. The defense has been one of the worst in the entire league every year he's been here. His protection sucks and he's had to deal with a revolving door of schemes and coaches. He'll set franchise records for TDs and yardage Sunday despite all that, and we have fans here who don't even want to see what he could do in a second season with these coaches and this scheme. The Bucs have never had a team with this much offensive talent. If the defense can even be mediocre next year, this offense will carry the Bucs to the playoffs. I can't wait to see how Dominik and Schiano fix the issues this team has. Replacing Freeman would create an even bigger issue.
You might want to check your excuse.
Just go and look at how veteran the Niners were in Montanas first full season.
On the D they started 3 rookies and only 2 players on the unit had been in the league more than 3 years.
On offense his RB was in year 4, FB year 3, #1 wideout year 3, the o line averaged 5 years.
Average age of the starting units was 26 years old, what was that about veterans again?
In terms of stable coaching staffs, Montana was a part of Walshs first draft as Niners head coach, it's not like he was established in any way and his QB coach Wyche had never coached (except for 1 season in college before he played in the NFL)

LOL. It's not like Joe Montana was the best QB in NFL history or anything.


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